And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Rev 12:1-5

Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand .... then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. John 7:2,10

How I have thought of these scriptures, from John's Gospel and his Revelation this week, as a number of brothers and sisters have been sharing thoughts on our resurrection on Fellership forum. There is a wind in the air that is filled with the fragrance of green figs and tender grapes for it seems the harvest is near and the Manchild born from both above and from within the sons of God is crowning.

I have mentioned before that I learned two things right off the bat when I first met Jesus thirty five years ago.

* Christ Jesus is given preeminence in all things.
* We are always to look for His appearing.

Those two precepts, although ever enlarged in my life, have served me well and especially now days in the discerning of whom is walking within the high calling of sonship. Those that have surrendered themselves fully to the Kingdom of God and the Cross of Christ carry a rare anointing for my life. As these most precious of saints pour out their lives and share their vision of Jesus I am often made tender and tearful, for I know the cost they have paid. And how wonderful it is to walk arm in arm with them, on the path rarely taken much less found. These rare souls have, by God's elect grace, found their way through the justification and redemption of Passover. They have also spent time celebrating and manifesting the gifts and ministries of Pentecost. Still today these sons and daughters of the Most High, press on in the autumn of their spiritual lives. They are bravely walking into the promised greater works of the last and greatest experiential feast and that be the Feast of Tabernacles.

We know that wherever the Lord of Life is, the end is at hand. So it is with those that are experiencing the ends of this earth within their very lives. Because they have shared the weight of Christ's Cross in this fallen world they know the Father's Kingdom is that which draws them day and night. There upon the Father's bosom they find their daily sustenance of His enduring love and grace. These sons have stepped into the Jordan, which represents death to the self life and are now being raised up, where they sit together in the Heavenly places of Christ Jesus(Eph.2:6) These are the called of the age, who resolutely march to their second death, and the death of death, rather than shrink back and perish. They have been given the vision of Heaven on earth and thus they believe that which the world counts as folly. These rising sons believe and so they suffer the last workings of the Cross that they might win their souls and the even the souls of those that scoff. (Heb 10:35-39).

With that said and before I dare go on to share some of that which some of us have been discussing this week I am moved to share an invitation for any one that might be sitting on the fence between "keepin a bit" and
"surrender of all."

"I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of (all) the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies, presenting all your members and faculties as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.

Do not be conformed to this world this age, fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs. But be transformed (changed) by the (entire) renewal of your mind by its new ideals and its new attitude so that you may prove (for yourselves) what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect (in His sight for you)" Rom 12:1,2 Amplified

So where in time do we, as sons, stand right now?

I personally know and also through conversations, we who have gone on to experience the old order feasts of Passover and Pentecost are standing in a place of travail, which is oft horribly painful yet increasingly full of glorious expectation. We feel from deep within that the birth of the manchild and mature son, bearing the fullness of Christ, is imminent. We today, are as caught between Heaven and earth and we are grasping both while pulling them together. With great joy and with one hand we have taken hold of the Throne and with deep empathy and by the other hand we tearfully lift up this wounded world. With that pulling together we groan, "O my God, when will it be, that we can truly say: now we live because we do not die."

Joian sent me a writing by Elaine Cook which I just started to read last night. Let me say what a delight it is to fellowship so many "Heavenly spies". It seems we are all taking forays into Canaan and we bring back wonderful gleanings that we might share one with another in joy and encouragement. So it is with this shared message that delighted both our souls. Elaine tells of our position today, as one age sets and a new and more glorious one dawns.

Between two feasts

Passover and Pentecost are old-order feasts that are passing away. This is where we are. We are moving beyond Pentecost; yet, we have not arrived at Tabernacles. Thus, we are in transition between these two feasts -- going from doing to being.

This is our present day dilemma. We are still in that feast where we look through a glass darkly and know only in part.

On the other hand, Tabernacles is where we see "face to face," where we shall know even as also we are known. 1 Cor. 13:12b. It has been clearly expressed in
Romans 8:18-25 NKJ:

"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance."

We cannot make Tabernacles happen. We cannot usher it in before it is time. Only the Father knows the time. It is completely in His hands. Yet, I find I am no longer content to simply do or know, but deeply yearn to be (become) what I know and more so.

We say with Paul, the apostle,

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." Php. 3:12-14

When we wonder how we could ever make this full yieldedness of our life to God as Jesus did, we find the answer in the Burnt Offering that portrayed His Life fully yielded to God. First, the offering a bullock, was slain and divided into portions. The head was placed upon altar a fit emblem of the mind. Then, the legs were to be washed and placed upon the altar. Legs speak of our walk, which must be cleansed "by the washing of water by the Word."

The inwards were also washed before being placed upon the altar. The inwards are our feelings, our emotions, will, desires and affections all the five aspects of the soul. These also had to be cleansed before they could be offered. Lastly, the fat (which was in a special way the Lord’s portion) was offered. The fat speaks of the strength, health and vigor of the whole person. The strength of our life is God’s and does not belong to us to squander in selfish, fleshly pursuits.

Here we see the whole Burnt-offering: the entire surrender of self to God in everything. Jesus gave up all, reserving nothing for self, or for His own ease, or for His credit, for His pleasure or His advancement. In Jesus, the head, the legs, the inwards, the fat all were surrendered, making Him without spot or blemish. Had there been but one thought, one affection, one step not fully yielded, He could not have been accepted as a whole Burnt Offering.

What a contrast His life makes with ours! Psalm 49:18 tells us, ". . . for men will praise thee when thou does well to thyself." With us, how many thoughts are for self, our ease, our pleasure
and our interests? "What’s in it for me?" How much of our walk, of our affections, is consumed on anything rather than the altar! (Cooke)

O Lord, grant us increasing grace for each day that we might be consumed, until all that be left is You.

In closing I want to share something that Eliyah spied out this week. Incidental our sister, Eliyah goes by the name "Heavenly Spy" when sharing on the forums. When she signs off with an E-mail to me she sometimes writes "Spy and Kai" which speaks to both, she and her husband Mordekai. I love it and I also have come to enjoy my occasional phone visits with Spy and Kai as one must possess a strong anointing to quickly transition seasons when communicating with this most enjoyable couple. Spy goes an excited hundred ninety words a minute while in the same time Kai might share three in his relaxed southern drawl (lol). I have often shared my vision of the multi-personalitied corporate Christ man and how I enjoy the contrasting personalities of these two dears saints, that love God with all their hearts.

He paints the heavens

Eliyah is an observer of the firmament above and keeps us abreast of the signs in the heavens. We know that mankind walks beneath the record of God's redemptive work written in the stars, while most are totally unaware of the Gospel proclaimed in the celestial, since before there was even man.
"And God said let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and days, and years:" Gen 1:14
"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handy work. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard." Ps 19:1-3
Our sister subscribes to a Biblical Astronomy site run by Bob Wadsworth and here in this message Bob refers to that which will be taking place in the night skies during the 2008 date of the Feast of Trumpets and Tabernacles. Preceding his message, I'll list this year's Autumn feasts and their respective dates:
Sept. 30th/Oct. 1st is the Feast of Trumpets
Oct. 9th is the Day of Atonement
Oct. 13th- Oct. 21st is the Feast of Tabernacles
There have been a number of celestial events that have occurred over the past 6 months that have been portraying war between Israel and its arch-enemy. I have been explaining this in previous newsletters leading up to this one. The main point in this newsletter is that there is a lot of celestial activity (far above normal) in Virgo this month and considering the portrayal's of the previous six months leading to this, there is a probability (not absolutely positive) that the Tribulation may begin in October. Every constellation has a Biblical meaning about certain events in Biblical prophecy. When there is above normal celestial activity occurring in a certain constellation, there is a possibility that the prophecy that constellation is portraying may come about at that time.

The constellation Virgo represents the woman of Revelation 12. It is in Revelation 12 that the Dragon is cast down and then chases after the woman. She takes flight to the wilderness where she is protected from the Dragon. The Dragon makes war with the remnant of her seed and from the Dragon comes the beast from the sea who is the arch-enemy of Israel

The constellation represents the faithful of the 12 tribes of Israel. This also includes the 144,000 who are all "virgins." Appropriate for Virgo. Revelation 12:2 is a figure of speech used to describe the time of "Jacob's Trouble."

Revelation 12:2 - "And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

Compare this verse with Jeremiah 30:6,7 - "Ask ye now,and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned to paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

also 1 Thessalonians 5:3 - "For when they shall say, Peace and safety: then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." (Jacob is saved out of it, but whoever "they" are here, shall not escape).

The first verse of Revelation 12 is the heavenly sign depicting the beginning of "Jacob's trouble."

Revelation 12:1 - "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:"

This sign will occur on October 1 when the sun will be in the midst of Virgo and the moon will be under her feet. I will have a chart on that in the September/October 2008 issue of Biblical Astronomy. October 1 will be the Day of Trumpets on the corrected Hebrew Calendar.
The twelve stars above her head are the 12 Signs including Virgo. The 12 Signs start above the head of Virgo and end behind the tail of Leo (the lion). Each sign represents one of the Twelve Tribes. The twelve stars are the Twelve Tribes of Israel.

All of the celestial activity in Virgo (planetary massings and conjunctions) this year brings particular interest as to if this is actually the time that these prophetic events concerning "Jacob's trouble will actually take place at this time ........

Yours because of Calvary,

Bob Wadsworth
of Biblical Astronomy
...a voice crying in the heavens

Now, I am not much on external signs, but with a peripheral view of my single eye for Christ I do notice the current events of our tumultuous world. Also how often this summer I have heard friends speak of their being drawn to observe both the day and night skies. Two days ago my neighbor and fellow saint, Christie mentioned how she, many times this summer, has been quickened to look up above only to be caught in awe by the beauty of the clouds overhead. Christie spoke of how she has never seen the clouds so glorious and how she was reminded of "the great cloud of witnesses" cheering us on.

Jesus died on the very date of the Passover Feast. The Holy Spirit was given on the very date of the Feast Of Pentecost. We have not seen the New Testament manifestation of the Feast of Tabernacles and I can't help but believe it will correspond with it's rightful date. Thus I give some earnest attention to that which Bob Wadswoth shared. My life wont' change one iota today because of this, nor will it change on Sept 28th the day before Celebration of Tabernacles. There are no preparations I can make as I only rest peaceably in Him, who holds all universe in His hand. He has laid out the world and it's times perfectly and all is purposed for good toward those that are called according to His purpose. What a comforting promise!

I have have seen the ends of the world in my own heart and I can only hope the end is near for all those I hold dear to my heart. Every day is the Day of the Lord and wherever our Lord is the end is nigh at hand. One day soon and possibly in this fall season a generation will awaken to find that Heaven and earth which they have been prayerfully pulling together has "met." You might call "Heaven and earth met" a Resurrected body and you'll get no argument from me. For I am one that still holds fast, with a Yea and Amen to God's unreasonable and improbable promises born of our miraculous life in Christ Jesus!

Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand .... then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. John 7:2,10

As Jesus went to the feast in secret, so I believe it shall be with His younger brothers. As the world and even most in Christendom eat and drink and are filled with cares of this temporal world there is a remnant bride that is being made ready. The marriage supper is being set even today in anticipation. The cloud of witnesses are gathering as the morning stars are carried over the last threshold. I pray you are as excited and thrilled as we are!

Jack & Joian and Spy & Kai

PS. "Tabernacles will be fulfilled in us when Jesus comes again within His people in the fullness of His glory. There are many speculations about when that will be and what that will look like, but we really cannot know. Nevertheless, there are scriptures that give us some clues. Rom. 8:18-19; 1 John 3:2; and Gal. 4:19.

Those who are foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Rom. 8:29) know within themselves that they are born again and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Likewise, many of them are being made to "know" intuitively by the Holy Spirit that this glory is already at work within them." (R Jones)

Preson Eby writes of the coming of Christ in the Feast of Tabernacles here:




A few weeks ago I was led to start a new blog that the Lord might use to reach those in my community. I truly feel the time is ripe for the message of "Universal Reconciliation" as the saints bound in the organized churches are hungry for this freeing Truth in Christ Jesus. Left and right we see signs that God is tearing down the whorish temples of Babylon and with this we perceive that their is coming a new openness to the "Real Good News of the Gospel of Christ." Hopefully this new blog titled "JACKSON HOLE & CHRIST" will not only be used in my community but also by others that frequent "SONSHINE." For the time being most of "our" material on JH&Christ will be geared toward spreading the message of "God's graceful gift of salvation extended to all men." I say "our" because this is not a work I am capable of doing by myself. I joyfully acknowledging the invaluable sharings of communal gifts by a number of others through financial support, writings, correspondence and most importantly prayer. This can be applied to both our blogs. These are not "I" endeavors but "Christ works" shared by many members that make up His body. God forbid that there should ever the be the elevation of one over another as we move in Him, setting this fallen world free from the bounds of sin, self and Satan.

With that introductory I want to share a photo of the cards we had printed up to give out and place on the many bulletin boards around town. Lastly here is the link to our new site and also a new message by our dear sister Eliyah, which I know you will enjoy.
We hope you will visit and even bookmark JH&Christ, as a place you might possibly send another that is ripe to explore and know Jesus, the Saviour of the World.

In God's Grace,

Jack, Joian, Eliyah, Kai, Mike, Caroline and a number of unnamed others



Yesterday I had the privilege of sharing the "Real Good News" on a fundamentalist Christian forum with Eliyah/Heavenly Spy. While she was in the midst of slaying the giants of "eternal torment" and "free will" that reside in the land of these deceived but precious souls I felt led to send her the link to "THE CASE AGAINST HELL" by Mercy Aiken. As Eliyah posted excerpts from this anointed writing within a discussion, I was taken back by the power of this message. Rarely in my forum experience have I seen such a thing. This message coupled with Eliyah's thoughts left no place to for those on that venue to hide their hideous doctrine of "Hell, a place of eternal torment." These defenders of the absurd, had run into the purifying Lake of Fire and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. It was then I thought to post this anointed message by Mercy for our readers.

If you are sharing of the "falsity of Hell" I don't believe you will find a better paper than "A Case Against Hell" to put into the hands of one that has been brought to consider the absurdity of this terrible doctrine. It is a mighty tool and it is also a pleasure to note that Joian and I enjoyed a number of years of fellowship with the author of this wonderful writing.

This is indeed the "Real Good News of the Gospel of Christ" and when embraced one will learn to love their neighbors and even their enemies as Jesus did. I personally, in the past, assigned most of my fellow man to eternal torment in hell and then one day I saw how grievous and belittling this was to Christ and His sacrifice, that by the grace of God is extended to all men. Today, and even for the past twenty five years I have found "trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." (1Ti 4:10)

How we love Him,

Jack & Joian

By Mercy Aiken

The case against Hell: Did you know that there is a solid scriptural case to be made against the idea of Hell? Many non-Christians have rejected the concept of Hell, but it may come as a surprise to learn that there is a growing number of Bible-believing Christians who also reject the notion-not in spite of Scripture but because of it! This short study is meant only to raise some questions and provide brief answers. For further study, please refer to the links at the end of the article.

An open and unbiased study of the Bible, including many key Greek and Hebrew words as well as Church history will reveal some surprising things.

For instance, did you know that....

"Hell" Is Not an Old Testament doctrine:

Popular myth : Hell is an established Biblical doctrine that is in the Bible from start to finish. This is not true! Two thirds of the Bible (the Old Testament) does not mention Hell at all. ("Sheol," the Old Testament word that is sometimes translated as Hell, only means "grave" by definition, and it is where everyone in the Old Testament went when they died--good or evil, Jew or Gentile). Thus the Old Testament does not contain the concept of Hell!

Think about it...

If Hell is real, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was death- -not "eternal life" in fire and brimstone.

If Hell is real, why wasn't Cain warned about it, or Sodom and Gomorrah , or any of those who committed the earliest recorded "sins?"

If Hell is real why didn't Moses warn about this fate in the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Covenant consisting of over 600 laws, ordinances, and warnings? The Mosaic Law simply stated blessings and cursings in this lifetime.

If Hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the Bible? Many nations surrounding Israel in the Old Testament believed in Hell-like punishment in the afterlife, for they served bloodthirsty and evil "gods," while Israel simply taught the grave (sheol) and a hope of a resurrection. If Hell is real, why was the revelation of it first given to pagan nations, instead of God's covenant people? Did God expect Israel to learn about the afterlife from the Pagan Gentiles? If so, why did He repeatedly warn Israel to not learn of their ways?

If Hell is real, why did God tell the Jews that burning their children alive in the fire to the false god Molech, (in the valley of Gehenna ) was so detestable to Him? God said that such a thing "never even entered His mind" (Jer. 32:35). How could God say such a thing to Israel , if He has plans to burn alive a good majority of His own creation in a spiritual and eternal Gehenna of His own making?

**FACT: The King James Bible erroneously translates the word "Sheol" as Hell a total of 31 times in the Old Testament, thus setting a foundation for that doctrine in the New Testament as well as the majority of Bible translations to follow the KJV. Even so, most new translations have completely eliminated Hell from the Old Testament, as honest and better scholarship has demanded. The Jewish version of the Old Testament (the Tanakh) has no concept of Hell in it. The importance of this fact cannot be over-emphasized. If a doctrine does not appear as seed form in the books of the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, it cannot fairly be taught as a major biblical doctrine, if indeed it can be taught as biblical at all!

Hell Is Not a New Testament Doctrine:

Popular myth: Jesus spoke of Hell more than He did of Heaven. This is not true! Jesus warned the Jews many times of impending destruction, both nationally and individually. He used several different terms to refer to punishment/destruction, some of which were erroneously translated as the same word, "Hell" by Bible translators. We do not deny that God will indeed judge the whole world, nor do we wish to make light of His judgments. We are challenging the belief that His judgment on sin and unbelief is eternal torment/Hell and never-ending separation from God. Certainly, Jesus spent a lot of his ministry warning people to repent or reap the consequences, (particularly "Gehenna.") But could we be reading more into His warnings than He originally intended?

Think about it.......

If Hell is real, why were most of the warnings pertaining to punishment/Gehenna directed to Israel , particularly the Lord's own disciples as well as the Pharisees? The first great cluster of references to Gehenna, are found in the Sermon on the Mount (Mat 5:22, 29, 30), Jesus' great sermon to His disciples in which He warned that one was in danger of Gehenna for the likes of calling someone a fool. This is a far cry from our modern Evangelical interpretation that says not accepting Jesus as your Savior is what sends someone to Hell. Are we perhaps missing the symbolism that Jesus originally intended?

If Hell is real, aren't we taking verses out of context when we warn non-Jewish sinners who are not part of the Mosaic covenant God made with the nation of Israel about consequences for sin which have nothing to do with them since they are not under that covenant?

Since the concept of Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament, how could Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a place that is not even found in their Scriptures? And if He was introducing the subject for the first time, why did He do it so casually, as though His listeners already understood what He was talking about?

If Hell is real, since some English translations use the word Hell for the Greek word "Gehenna," in the New Testament, why didn't this same place (Gehenna) get translated Hell in the many places where it appears in the Hebrew form "ga ben Hinnom" in the Old Testament?

If the Jews did not understand "Gehenna" as a symbol of everlasting torture, but rather as a place of shame, filth, and defilement (where Israel participated in the grossest form of idol worship), why does modern theology ascribe more to the word than the original meaning did? The teaching of Gehenna has evolved in Jewish teachings to include punishment in the afterlife; but even today, Gehenna still does not mean "endless" punishment to the Jews.

If Hell is real how could the Apostle Paul (who was especially commissioned by God to preach the gospel to the nations) say that he had declared the entire counsel of God (Acts 20:27), when indeed he never warned of "Hell" in any of his letters? If Hell is real, wouldn't Paul, of all people, warn of it repeatedly?

If Hell is real, the sin/death of Adam has had a far more powerful effect on the world than the resurrection life of Christ! And yet Paul declares in Romans 5 that Christ's victory is far greater than Adam's transgression! Listen to Paul's confidence in the work of Christ! If Paul believed in eternal hell for the majority of men, how could he write the following verses?

".Just as the result of one trespass (Adam's) was condemnation for all men , so also the result of one act of righteousness (Christ's) was justification that brings life for all men . For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. ( Romans 5:18,19).

"Since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)

"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe" (1 Timothy 4;10).

(The above verses are just a few of the many verses where Paul writes of a pre-eminent Christ that far transcends the traditional Christian view. This article is full of many more New Testament references by Paul that display his views of the Christ triumphant, unlimited, all-powerful, all-conquering, and victorious).

If Hell is real, why is it that the only time Paul even mentioned "Hell" in any of his epistles, was declare the triumph of Christ over it? (1 Corinthians 15:55). The word "Grave" in the passage is the Greek word "Hades."

If Hell is real, why is it not mentioned once in the book of Acts in any the evangelistic sermons that were recorded by the early Apostles?

If Hell is real why do some of the best Bible scholars and Bible teachers say it is not in the Greek or Hebrew text? (William Barclay, John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, F.W. Farrar, Marvin Vincent, etc.)

If Hell is real, why does the word itself come from the Teutonic "Hele" (goddess of the underworld "Hell" of northern Europe ). The description of this ancient mythological place has very little resemblance anymore to the modern Christian image of Hell. See any encyclopedia or dictionary for the origin of the word.

FACT: The apocryphal books of the intertestimental period had a tremendous impact on the Jews in the time of Christ. It is from these books, especially the book of Enoch, that many of the Jewish myths and fables concerning Hell, heaven, demons and angels and many other fables first became a part of Judaism and from there became a part of Christianity. The myths and fables of these books came from Pagan influences (namely Zoroastrianism), during and after the Babylonian captivity of Israel . In fact, Zoroastrianism looks more like modern Christianity in many ways than ancient Judiasm does!

If Hell is real, why did Paul warn Timothy repeatedly to stay away from Jewish myths and fables, the likes of which were influencing many in the early church? Rather than affirming such doctrines, Paul declares them to be profane fables. (1 Tim. 1:1; Tit. 1:14)

Hell Contradicts The Work of the Messiah:

Popular myth: Jesus came to save the sinner from his destination of everlasting Hell. Not exactly true! Hell was never a place that the Jews were hoping to be saved from, since they didn't even believe in it! But they did need to be saved from their sins and consequences of them; namely death. Jesus came as the Anointed One to fulfill all of God's plan for the earth-that through Him might come the salvation, deliverance of sin, peace, kingdom of God and all that God had promised through the Old Testament scriptures. There is much we can say here, but for the sake of brevity we will limit our points to a few key passages. Please take the time to look up the verses that are referenced.

Think about it...

If Hell is real, why does Psalm 22 (one of the most prophetic passages in scripture concerning the Messiah) promise that because of the cross, " All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD , and all the families of the nations will worship before You. For the kingdom is the LORD'S and He rules over the nations. All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship , all those who go down to the dust will bow before Him, even he who cannot keep his soul alive " (Psalm 22:27-29 NASB).

If Hell is real, did Jesus fail in His mission? He said, "I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (John 12:47).

If Hell is real and most find their way to it, was Jesus lying when He said if He was lifted up (crucified) that He would "draw" ("drag" in the original Greek word, "helkyo") all mankind unto Himself? (John 12:32)

If Hell is real and eternal, how can the Scriptures speak of the gathering of all things into Christ? (Eph. 1:10)

If Hell is real and eternal, how can all things be subdued unto Christ? (1 Corinthians 15:28, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 2:8).

If Hell is real and eternal, how can it be that the scriptures promise that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord? (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10).

If Hell is real and eternal, how will Jesus ever see the travail of His soul and be satisfied (Isaiah 53:11)? If the traditional understanding is correct, most of those He came to save will never experience His salvation. Do we believe that this would be satisfying to Jesus?

If Hell is real, and God sent Jesus to save people from it, can we really say that the will and pleasure of God has prospered in His hand, since, according to traditional theology, only a few will ever be saved? (Isaiah 53:10, and 55:11).

If Hell is real, and the devil is the one who deceives people into going there, isn't he ultimately the winner in the war for souls? After all, traditional interpretation of the Bible says that more people will end up in Hell than in Heaven. If so, how can we really call Satan the defeated enemy and Christ the victor?

If Hell is real and most of mankind will remain in an eternal deathlike state of torment with no chance to repent or escape, how exactly are we to understand and rejoice in the fact that Jesus destroyed death and him that had the power of death (Satan)? (Hebrews 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8, Hosea 13:14, 1 Corinthians 15:55, 1 Corinthians 15:26 etc.)

If Hell is eternal, how can the increase of Christ's government and of peace have no end? (Isaiah 9:7).

FACT: The term "saved" has evolved in Christianity to mean something different than it did to the original readers and hearers of Scripture. The Greek words, "sozo" and "soteria" embrace the broad meaning of being rescued, delivered, healed and saved from danger. These words were applied in a variety of ways throughout the New Testament. There is much more to the salvation of Christ than most Christians know. Sadly, much of the church is robbed of fullness of their salvation by embracing a limited and futuristic view of what it actually means-- (i.e. "going to Heaven when they die").

Popular Myth: "Eternity" is a theme that is throughout the entire Bible, including eternal punishment. Not exactly true! We are not denying that the New Testament is full of warnings of judgment, and that the words, "everlasting" and "eternal" appear often in most translations. However, a careful study of the words that are translated to mean forever or everlasting, will prove that they have been mistranslated. The question is not whether or not God will punish sin and rebellion, but rather how He does it, and for what purpose and how long the correc5ion lasts.

Think about it..

If Hell is forever, why is the Hebrew word Olam (which has been translated to mean "eternal/forever") used in so many verses where it clearly does not mean "everlasting? A few examples: "Everlasting" is applied to the priesthood of Aaron; to the statutes of Moses; to the mountains and hills; and to the doors of the Jewish temple, to the length of time that reproach and shame should be upon the Jews. The word "forever" is applied to the duration of man's earthly existence; to the time a child was to abide in the temple; to the continuance of Gehazi's leprosy; to the to the duration of a king's life; to the time a servant was to abide with his master; to the duration of the Jewish temple; to the time David was to be king over Israel; to the throne of Solomon; to the stones that were set up at Jordan; and to the time Jonah was in the fish's belly. It should be obvious from the context that olam merely referred to an indefinite period of time--not forever!

Aion and related words ( aionian and aionios ) are the Greek equivalents of olam . Aion, literally means "age," from which we get our English word, "eon." Aion/age/eon, is merely a period of time. "Aionian and Aionios" are words that refer to the ages (plural) or pertaining to the ages. As long as time is being measured, it cannot be referring to eternity, which is a realm beyond the measurement of time. If "Hell" is forever, why is it described by words that pertain to the ages?

If the Greek word Aion and its derivatives mean eternal as some Bible scholars insist, why did contemporary Greek usage of it, at the time the New Testament was written, not carry with it the idea of endless eternity? (Works by Plato, Aristotle, Homer, Hippocrates and many others use these words in a limited, not an eternal sense).

If Hell is forever, how do we explain the fact that aion/olam did not mean eternal/unending to the original writers and hearers of Scripture?

FACT: Some would argue that if aionian and related words do not mean eternal, then God cannot be eternal, for these words also describe Him. To this we say, that just because God is described as the God of the eons, does not mean that He is not the God who also transcends the eons. In the same way, just because He is called the God of Israel , does not also mean that He is not the God of all the other nations. Also, there are other Greek words used to refer to the unending power and life of God. They are, aptharsia/apthartos, which means imperishableness and immortality; amarantinos/amarantos which mean unfading; and akatalytos , which means indestructable. They are usually translated as immortal, or incorruptible. Please refer to the following verses for reference: Hebrews 7:15-16, 1 Peter 1:3-4, 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Timothy 1:17, Romans 1:23, 1 Corinthians 9:25, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, Romans 2:7, 1 Corinthians 15:42, 2 Timothy 1:10, and 1 Timothy 6:16.

Popular Myth: One's fate is sealed after death. If this is true, how do we deal with the following scriptures that indicate the opposite?

Think about it...

"Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, He devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him" (2 Samuel 14:14).

"The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: He bringeth down to the grave (sheol), and bringeth up." 1 Samuel 2: 6

"See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand" (Deuteronomy 32:39).

"I will ransom them from the power of the grave (Sheol/Hell); I will redeem them from death. O Death, I will be your plagues! O Grave (Sheol/Hell), I will be your destruction!" (Hosea 13:11-14).

"For men are not cast off by the Lord forever. Though He brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is His unfailing love. For He does not willingly bring affliction or grief to the children of men. (Lam 3:31-33)

"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny" (Matthew 5:25-26).

If Hell is a place of no escape, why did the early church teach Jesus went to Hell (Hades), preached to them and led captivity captive? (Eph. 4:8,9; Psalm 68:18; 1 Peter 3:18-20)

If Hell lasts forever, why the Psalmist confidently speak again and again about being rescued from it (sheol)? (Psalms 16:10, 30:2-3, Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 116:3-8, 139:8).

If Hell is real, how can Solomon teach that the spirit of man will return to the God Who gave it? (Ecc 12:7).

If the grave settled the matter forever, why did the early Christians offer up prayers for the dead? Why were they baptized for the dead? (1 Corinthians 15:29).

"Hell" Was Not a Doctrine of the Early Church:
(continued in the following blog)


THE CASE AGIANST HELL by Mercy Aiken (cont.)

"Hell" Was Not a Doctrine of the Early Church:

Popular myth: Universalism was recently introduced to Christianity in the 1800's as the church became more liberal and modern and began to abandon their true biblical foundation. This is not true! A belief in the restitution of all things was a standard view in the early church, held by the majority of early Christians. It has also been held by a minority throughout all of church history even during the Dark Ages.

Think about it..

If Hell was real, why did the first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian doctrine ever given to the world by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, contain the tenet of universal salvation?

If Hell was real, why did the first complete presentation of Christianity (Origen, 220 A.D.) contain the doctrine of universal salvation?

If Hell was real, why do neither the Apostles Creed, nor the Nicean Creed, two foundational "doctrinal statements" for the early church, contain the concept of Hell?

If Hell was real, why did Church leaders as late as the fourth century AD acknowledge that the majority of Christians believed in the salvation of all mankind?

If Hell was real why did the early church appoint an avowed universalist as the President of the second council of the church of Constantinope in the fourth century? (Gregory Nazianzen, 325-381).

If Hell was real why did not a single Church council for the first five hundred years condemn Universalism as heresy considering the fact that they made many declarations of heresy on other teachings?

If Hell was real why didn't Epiphanius (c. 315-403) the "hammer of heretics" who listed 80 heresies of his time not list universalism among those heresies?

If Hell was real, since most historians would acknowledge today that Origen was perhaps the most outstanding example of universalism in the church, when Methodius, Eusibius, Pamphilus, Marcellus, Eustathius, and Jerome made their lists of Origen's heresies, why wasn't universalism among them?

If Hell was real and found in the original Greek manuscripts of the Bible, why is it that it was primarily those church leaders who either couldn't read Greek (For example, Minucius Felix and Tertullian), or hated Greek as in the case of Augustine, that the doctrine of Hell was advocated? Those early church leaders familiar with the Greek and Hebrew (the original languages of the Bible) saw universal salvation in those texts. Those who advocated Hell got it from the Latin, not from the original Greek and Hebrew. Who would more likely be correct--those who could read the original languages of the Bible or those who read a Latin translation made by one man (Jerome)?

If Hell was real then why did four out of six theological schools from 170 AD to 430 AD teach universal salvation while the only one that taught Hell was in Carthage, Africa, again were Latin was the teaching language, not Greek?

If Hell was real and a serious heresy, why was it not until the sixth century when Justinian, a half-pagan emperor, tried to make universalism a heresy? Interestingly, most historians will acknowledge that Justinian's reign was among the most cruel and ruthless.

*The historical facts documented in the above section can all be verified through the books, "Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Early Church for the First 500 Years" by J.W. Hanson

and "The History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution" by Edward Beecher.

Hell does not reflect the heart of God:

Popular myth: The justice of God demands a place like Hell in which the wicked shall be eternally punished for their sins. Not true! The justice of God demanded a perfect sacrifice for sin, and that man was Christ Jesus. The justice of God will certainly come to every person, and God may deal severely with our sins as He subdues and gathers all things to Christ, but to punish people endlessly for crimes committed in a short human lifespan defies all logic and justice. How is it just to have unending punishment for offenses that have limits?

Think about it....

If Hell is real and all things were made for God's pleasure (Rev. 4:11), is it conceivable that God would derive pleasure from seeing those He created endlessly tortured? God says He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ez. 33:11).

If Hell is a real place of endless torment, and God didn't want anyone to end up there, why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve and end the long terrible chain of misery that passed to their offspring before it began? After all, the Scriptures say that all died because of Adam. (Rom. 5:18)

If Hell is real, if God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them? Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

If Hell is real, if you had sufficient power would you not deliver all men from sin? If God would save all men, but cannot , is He infinite in power?

If Hell is real, and God can save all men, but will not , is He infinite in goodness and mercy?

If Hell is real, since God will have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3 KJV), does that mean God's power is not strong enough to have His will fulfilled?

If Hell is real and Jesus teaches us to forgive seventy times seven and yet He Himself will never offer forgiveness to anyone after they die, does that not make Him a hypocrite?

If Hell is real and God's wrath abides upon billions of human beings forever, doesn't that violate the Scripture which says His anger will come to an end? (Isaiah 57:16-18)

If Hell is real and God only loves those who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

If Hell is real, since some people receive many chances to "get saved," some receive only a few chances and billions have never even received one chance, does that make God a respecter of persons? (Acts 10:34, James 3:17). After all, billions of people have been born and died on this earth without a chance to ever hear the name of Jesus, the "only name under heaven by which men may be saved."

If there is a Hell and all who have sinned are destined to go there (which is everyone) unless they figure out how to avoid it, does that not consign all aborted babies and non-Christian children to Hell? (While some denominations teach a so-called "age of accountability," it is not found anywhere in the Bible. It is just some people's way of trying to make God more humane than the eternal torment teaching makes Him out to be).

If Hell is real, does that mean that motherly love is more powerful and enduring than God's love? Do you know of normal parents who would endlessly torment most of their kids? Why do we believe our heavenly Father, Who is millions of times more loving than all of us combined, could do such an evil, wicked thing?

If Hell is real, why does the human spirit writhe under the horror of wars and prison camps, torture chambers and dictators? How can we judge these things as wrong, if Hell is real? After all, Hell far eclipses these earthly torments which came from the most sinful and beastly part of humanity. We say God is grieved by man's violence and disregard for life, and yet believe that He Himself enforces the same principles for all eternity!

If Hell is real, how would endless misery benefit the Almighty, as the inflictor? How would endless misery benefit the saints, as spectators? How would endless misery benefit the sinner, as the sufferer?

If Hell is real, how does the threat of endlessly torturing us convince us that God loves us and that we should love Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength?

FACT: While the church has gotten used to thinking of God as Someone who was forced to design a grandiose punishment called Hell, and against His own will sends the majority of His creation there, this concept of a God "who did the best He could" is totally against the Scriptural view of a God who is absolutely sovereign, powerful, all-wise and all-victorious. He never had to come up with a plan B or C, for Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It is time to give Him the glory He deserves for our God is truly awesome and wonderful far beyond the limited, and man-centered views of Him!

Come Up Higher!

Beloved, what is the "lens" through which you are interpreting the Bible? Traditional doctrines teach us to interpret the "victorious" scriptures in the light of the "judgment" scriptures. But what if God wants us to see it the other way around? What if we are to interpret the "judgment" scriptures in the light of the "victorious" scriptures? Is not Christ's victory the greatest revelation in the Bible? Standing on this highest peak-that is, the finished work of the cross, causes us to see a much larger and far more beautiful panoramic view of God's plan throughout the ages. We do not throw out one set of Scriptures in favor of another. Rather, we seek to harmonize them.For man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

In the time of Christ, most of Israel completely missed the Word of God when He was in their midst. They were too busy with their nose in the book, to perceive the Word Himself as He came and walked among them! Many Jews were afraid to believe in Jesus, since the majority of their leaders (Scribes, Pharisees, Saducees, Priests etc) who knew the scriptures better than they did, were convinced that He was not the Messiah. In the early days of the church, faith in Jesus Christ was heresy and to admit faith in Him was basically asking for scorn and rejection. Modern Christians point the finger at Israel of old, not realizing that we are following in their footsteps today. Most of us play it safe, siding with the denomination or movement that we happen to be a part of. While there is wisdom in honoring our spiritual fathers, we can never allow them to take the place of the Holy Spirit teaching us in our own lives.

The facts presented in this article should at least cause every reader who is truly hungry to know God, to search the scripture to see if these things be so. If what we are presenting here is false, it needs to be disproved. And if it is true, it cannot be ignored.

It is time to stop skipping the parts of the Bible that do not fit in with our theology. And if, like the religious leaders of Jesus' day, our theology is not big enough to hold the entire counsel of Scripture, perhaps it is time to expand--lest we once again miss God!

And so we ask you again, beloved Christian, to ask yourself.

If the traditional teaching of Hell is real..

How can mercy triumph over judgment? (James 2:13)

How can it be true that, "where sin abounded grace did much more abound?" (Rom. 5:20)

When will all flesh come to God? (Psalm 65:2-4)

When will the poor of the earth be avenged and comforted by God? (Psalm 113:7, Psalm 140:12, Proverbs 14:31, Proverbs 19:17, Proverbs 31:9, Isaiah 11:4, Isaiah 61:1, Jeremiah 22:16 etc.) (Bear in mind that most of the poor of the earth throughout history have not had a chance to accept Jesus as their savior).

When shall it come to pass that: "On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine- the best of meats and the finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken" (Isaiah 26:6-8).

When and how will "all nations" praise Him, come to Him, serve Him, be blessed in Him and bow to Him? (Psalm 45:17, Ps. 86:9, Isaiah 62:11, Daniel 7:14 Ps 66:1, Ps 72:11, Ps 102:15, Jer. 3:17, Ps 72:17, Isa. 2:2, Isa. 11:10, Isa. 52:10, Rev. 5:13 etc.)

How can the world be reconciled to God? (2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 11;5, Romans 5:10).

Why would Paul the apostle say the goal of God's creative plan was to ultimately be "all in all?" (1 Cor. 15:28)

How can it be true that God, Who works all things according to the counsel of His will, shall gather together all things in Christ, in the fullness of the times? (Ephesians 1:9-11)

How can Paul insist that "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things" (Romans 11:36).

How can the most often-repeated Biblical description of God be true? "His mercy endures forever" (literally, "His mercy/lovingkindness endures for the ages"). Certainly, as long as there are ages, and people in need of mercy, God's mercy will endure.

How and when can there ever be a "restitution of all things?" (Acts 3:21)

A Final Test

We have tested the doctrine of Hell against many different Biblical topics and concepts and found it wanting. When scrutinized in the light of the entire counsel of Scripture, the doctrine of Hell is found to be full of holes. Now, test this doctrine against your own heart and see whether it can stand. Please take some time and prayerfully ask yourself these questions:

If there is a Hell and according to most denominations of Christianity the majority of mankind will go there, could you really enjoy heaven knowing your mother or father or children or best friend are suffering everlasting tortures the likes of which would make the Holocaust seem like a picnic?

If Hell is real, will you judge your mother, son, or other non-believers to Hell ? "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world"? And if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life?" 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

If Hell is real and a place of terrible, unending pain, could you even send a dog to such a place?

If Hell is real and universalism is a heresy, why is it that those who believe God loves all and will save all find it easier to love all people than those who believe most people are going to Hell? (Think this through very carefully.)

If Hell is real, can you honestly rejoice in the victory, love, and wisdom of God, knowing that somewhere in His beautiful creation there will always be a black and stinking hell-hole crammed full of tortured souls who have no chance for relief or forgiveness--or even death? Even if there was only one person left in such a state, how could all of Heaven rejoice for all eternity knowing that there was still one soul who had not been touched by the victory of Christ and was suffering alone?

Is it good to desire all men to be saved? "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim.2:3,4).

. Do you ardently desire the salvation of all men?
. Is it true that God "openeth His hand and satisfieth the desire of every living thing?" -- (Ps. 145:16)
. Do you fervently pray for the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:1)
. Do you pray in faith, nothing doubting? (James 1:6)
. Are you aware, "that whatsoever is not of faith is sin?" -- (Rom 14:23)
. Would God require us to pray for all men, and to pray in faith, unless He intends all men should be saved?
. If you believe endless misery to be the truth of God, why should you desire and pray that it may prove false?

We hope that this information has raised enough questions for you to pursue further study on this subject. For more information on the history of the doctrine of Hell, the Lake of Fire , Studies on Biblical words that are often translated as eternal, everlasting, etc. and many other teachings pertaining to this subject, please visit:


Some of these questions were taken from a much larger list compiled in an article entitled Is Salvation a Deliverance From Hell or Eternal Death? " by Gary Amirault .

The painting on the front of this booklet is a scene from "The Damned" by Michelangelo. His paintings of Hell and the damned, like much Christian art of the time, was influenced more by Greek mythology of the underworld, than by the Bible.

Who are we? Tentmaker Ministries and Publications is a Christian ministry committed to sharing as best to our ability our understanding of God's plan for the ages to reconcile all things to Himself through Jesus Christ. (This view is also known as Ultimate reconciliation or Christian universalism, which is a very different thing than Unitarian Universalism). We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, the only way to the Father, the only begotten Son of God, and that there is no other way to everlasting, "aionian" life but through Him. We believe He is king of the universe, and owner of all Creation, and that His purpose is to bring all things under His government and reconciled with Himself.

".And for this we labor and strive, that we have put our hope in the living God, Who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe" (2 Timothy 4:10 ).

I pray Mercy's message has blessed you. I believe it is the definitive writing of my generation on the subject of "the myth of Hell and the truth of Universal Salvation."
I would be remiss if I didn't also share the "old standard" on "Universal Reconciliation." Multitudes have come to be set free from the torrid belief in Hell through this anointed writing by Andrew Jukes first published in 1867.



It's official - ALL miracles, signs & wonders have been CANCELLED!!


Todd has asked that all new donations be sent to:

Jack Hennessey
P.O. Box ____
Jackson, Wy

(This one is for you Kratos.
Joian, yourself and I shared
that rare Irish sense of humor
that is warranted at all times ;-)
(Todd Bentley once said,
"when God's not moving, I move God"
We all, at one time thought the same.
Then we found rest as we surrendered
to His will. I believe that was the subject of
John's last e-mail to Joian and myself. I
will treasure that lesson for the rest
of my days. As part of the Elohim
Kratos was a shining star, come to
earth to teach us, and for that I am
so thankful)

Kratos Rests Tonight in the Father's Bosom

We received this e-mail from Karen,
John (Kratos) McManus' wife,
today, August 24.

Hello Brother,
Just wanted you to know that John, my sweetheart went to Heaven on August 21st. We had a wonderful service yesterday and the Lord was with us...now I am seeking His will for our son and myself to know how to live until we are all together again. Thanks for all of your prayers and support with John in the past.

Love in Christ, Karen

We would be remiss if we did not take this opportunity to reflect on John.

John was a Jesus man, by that I mean life centered in obedience to Jesus. A great deal of how I perceived John was typified in the WWJD bracelets worn by so many in the organized church world. I understood so much of what he wrote because we both ministered and hung with the same group, known as the “faith movement”. When we first became acquainted, he would debate a point from that view.

So much changed these last three years as we grew in our understanding of our Lord. We were all it seems in the school of Christ together.......and we shared from our most different aspects and lessons.........

John and Jack debated on several forums and sometimes you might even find me involved........lol. We all grappled with the things God is making clear to us now…somewhat like the proverbial story of trying to describe an elephant to each other from opposite sides of the beast in a dark room.........…..Here are just a few of the topics we discussed;

* eternal torment vs. all will be saved,

* sovereignty vs. free will,

* need for covering, submission vs. Jesus is our head and only covering

* new age doctrines vs. Jesus is enough.

Every doctrine and creed was examined and re-examined over the three years we knew John. And yes, we came to love and respect him deeply, as a champion of the faith.

Often John and Jack would be on opposite sides of a debate. They were relentless with what they believed God had shown them in an unusual, spirit led way. They would lay it on the line with each other and all……The first tangle he and Jack got into was on a forum called “The Eagle Forum”, the discussion centered on;

Eternal Hell and Torment vs. Jesus will save and restore all men.

John was a moderator on the site as he and Jack began to debate. As I read their thoughts, one day I would be on John’s side and the next day on Jack’s. By the end of the month long debate over a 1000 hits showed many others were daily reading that thread. Very few joined in the debate as it was a holy thing, something God was doing between these two men…for our benefit. I was blessed to be part of that large audience viewing, I finished each night pondering their words.

How I recall the part that forever endeared John to me. So much of that debate had been on equal footing. Both men knew their stuff, so to speak. Then one night John began to ask Jack questions some honest inquiries, you could feel the hush. After an anointed response from Jack, John wrote something close to...........

Jack I see it ..... I see what you have been saying and the Lord has made it real to me .....it was true, the spirit had made it real to John and to me, and so many others that month…it took God using both John and Jack to clear out the traditions of men ..... and when it was over you knew Jesus had cleared out the money changers again ..... whew!

Karen, your husband left an inheritance that gives all men hope and the hearts of many were touched by him including ours……..Many times he shared about his family and asked for prayer. So in a way, we feel we know you all. We will miss our beloved friend and we will continue to pray for you, please keep in touch….

Love in Christ,

Joian and Jack

Note: We will forward any of your comments and condolences onto Karen and the rest of the McManus family.




Please bare with me for a moment as we are going to contrast a little New Age junk with the supernal Truth in Christ Jesus.
These New Age messengers with their occultic practices and messages are necessary that God's sons bearing His cross in this life be tried and found true. We love the yogis and gurus, while abhorring the rebellious spirits that indwell and move them.

"There are several energy centers, or vortexes of subtle energy, located in the Sedona area. (In Sedona, the energy centers are referred to as vortexes rather than vortices.) The energy from these vortexes saturates the whole area in and around Sedona, and can be noticed in a subtle but general way anywhere around town. If you actually go to one of the vortex sites, which is where the energy is strongest, it can be a very uplifting experience. The energy you take in at one of these energy centers can stay with you and affect you positively for days afterwards.

In addition to being a beautiful and serene place, Sedona has long been known as a spiritual power center. This is because the power that emanates from the vortexes produces some of the most remarkable energy on the planet. This energy is the reason Sedona is full of people that are "on the path", that is, people who have made a commitment to grow and become as much as they can spiritually. It is also the reason that such a large New Age community has sprung up in the Sedona area, bringing with it a variety of spiritual practices and alternative healing modalities, and it is the reason Sedona has sometimes been called a spiritual Disneyland.

We have personally found the energy centers at Sedona both exciting and growth inspiring. If you are at all sensitive to the more subtle things, the experience of standing at one of these vortexes, and letting the energy flow into
to experience this.

What is a Vortex?
A vortex is the funnel shape created by a whirling fluid or by the motion of spiraling energy. Familiar examples of vortex shapes are whirlwinds, tornadoes, and water going down a drain. A vortex can be made up of anything that flows, such as wind, water, or electricity.

The vortexes in Sedona are swirling centers of subtle energy coming out from the surface of the earth. The vortex energy is not exactly electricity or magnetism, although it does leave a slight measurable residual magnetism in the places where it is strongest.

There are four main energy vortexes in Sedona. The subtle energy that exists at these locations interacts with who a person is inside. The energy resonates with and strengthens the Inner Being of each person that comes within about a quarter to a half mile of it. This resonance happens because the vortex energy is very similar to the subtle energy operating in the energy centers inside each person. If you are at all a sensitive person, it is easy to feel the energy at these vortexes.

If you are planning a trip to Sedona, here is a map to help you easily locate the four main energy vortexes. On the map ........... " (end quote)

The above message about "vortexes of Sedona" was taken from a Barbara Simmons forum post. This is the latest subject of interest for my friend and New Age cosmic guru after her latest journey in search of Divine empowerment. Can you say, "Beam me up Scotty!" [wink]

Enough chiding already, with the exception of one last word below, as I sure don't want to get "Sigler and his wives such as Barb" upset at me again. This is especially true, after they lit me up for weeks on end (on Sig's forum) after my banishment (lol)

For those that might not know, Gary Sigler is a "New Age/Kingdom" writer and teacher that claims he was and still is of the same Truth as Preston Eby, Elwin Roach and others that declare emphatically Christ Jesus is enough. Within his writings Gary, in an attempt to give himself accreditation, will throw around the names of these respected teachers that demonstrate the heart of David. However, Gary left the Truth long ago with the whorish mixing of Christ with the many New Age philosophies, practices and apostate thinking now so popular at the end of this age and in the earth today. If you have been a participant on Sigler's forums or been to some of his meetings you have hopefully discerned how the mixed doctrines are shrouded in the soulish realm where self is proclaimed God. This realm is often camouflaged but for the spiritually astute it is, "the devil casting out the devil" in a number of absurd ways and methods. And lest I be accused of being chauvinistic with my preceding use of the term "Sigler's wives", I include the male participants on his board. I am not speaking of natural gender but instead, I am coming from a spiritual hierarchical understanding where a man led by the soul is spiritually effeminate having emasculated the spirit. This is an abomination to God and is born of a prideful and rebellious heart.

How often as I have thought of this sly guru, Sigler, and his group as typed (below) by this scene in the Old Testament, where Solomon has fallen from the path of truth. Often this sad account has been brought to mind and I believe if you have the least bit of discernment you will see it also. This group brings the enticement of witch craft and shamanism to God's children under the banner of Christ and love. The chasing of vortexes is actually one of the tamer pursuits I have read of on this forum, where necromancy and Sumerian Magic head up the long list.

But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. 1Ki 11:1,4,6,8

So, getting back to the subject of "vortexes", I am given thought to the contrast of the "Biblical paradise we know as Eden." (And, no Barb and gang, you will not find a semblance of paradise in Sedona or even Jackson Hole (my home), which is also purported to be another energy center.) I want to share with you, the locale where you, that truly know Christ, will find Eden as you make your pilgrimage through this fallen world. God actually took me to His Eden last week and I was amazed to find, I didn't even have to leave my neighborhood to experience it's magnificent and glorious beauty. Ain't that the way it usually works when the Spirit of God leads!

Let me start by saying, we having left our first estate as part of the Elohim to partake of our worldly pilgrimage and experience this earthly state, must travel through two gardens to reach the garden paradise. We must visit the garden of Gethsemane and the garden of the tomb before we taste of Paradise. The Gethsemane garden is our "valley of decision", while we experience the "death of self" in the garden tomb. Then on to "resurrection life and our ascension which is Paradise and the true Garden of Eden!! This is the journey of one who learns the way of Christ, which is the path of a poured out life. And most importantly this is not a "one, two, three step experience" but this supernal journey is made up of many events and times of our life spent within each garden. As our salvation is progressive so also are our "decisions", "deaths" and "resurrections" as we are lifted little by little into Christ's Full Glory. This is not a "prayer at the church altar and your good to go" type redemption but a "pressing onward and reaching for the mark of the high calling experience" that will spend our lives thoroughly until their be nothing left, but Christ risen and glorified. How few understand this and how blessed we are to not only understand it, but experience it. Brother Eby says the odds are much better for one to win the lottery than to experience His calling to sonship in this age. And while some think "sonship" an elitist doctrine, it is quite the opposite.

"...And they loved not their lives unto the death" Rev 12:11

Sonship is first of all, a message of the death of self, through servitude, resulting in the ascended Christ ruling and reigning. It is Christ, "the Little Lamb Slain" that sits on the throne and that should tell us all we need to know of the measure and method of Christ's rule and reign, in and through God's sons.

Now if you would, let us now direct our thoughts toward the last garden which is also the first garden, even before the (garden of)decision and (garden tomb)death which were both visited by Adam. Through our walk in Christ we tread a path reversing Adam's journey which encompassed an ill conceived "decision" with his resultant "spiritual death." But rather than diverge with that thought let us explore and come to some kind of premise as to where and what Eden is. As an important note let me first say, "the deepest level of the paradisaical Eden is Christ All in All, the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega of all things created.

The word "Eden" means "spot", "presence", "moment", "open door" and "delight." Some say Eden was a spot of earth where the Tigris River and the Euphrates converge. Today that would be in the war torn country of Iraq. Other's say it was found in Ethiopia or it was even Jerusalem. Then the Mormons claim Eden was located in present-day Jackson County, Missouri. So, although there may well have been a geographic place where Eden once existed, it was not the physical spot that made this place paradise. Instead, I believe it is safe to say it was the environment filled with the glorious presence of God that made this place special. As one author said, "the Garden of Eden was the spot for the moment where the presence of God provided an open door to heaven."
Eden was the place where heaven met earth.

Eden was and is "paradise" and paradise means walled garden or park. This enclosed garden is paradise for one reason, and that being, the Tree of Life stands there in the midst and under it's shadow all in the garden is good and even very good. In this paradise of God's making, He places man and gives him a directive to tend and care for the garden (Gen 2:15) As with any garden or orchard if it is not tended nature takes over and the area is soon overgrown. So it is, through Adam's neglectful sin, the joyous pleasure of tending the garden is lost. He is banished from the garden. Adam and his wife are thrown into a world of confusion, where the tares grow amongst the wheat and the weeds strangle the fruit. Adam, now suffers the curse of hard toil, made up of brow sweating labor, as he attempts with futility to keep nature within bounds.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen 3:17-19

One might wonder, "where is Paradise located today and can we still visit and experience it?"
Some might even ask, "do we have to wait with all of Sunday's church goers, till we die and go to paradise?" You I am sure, know better and so do I! Praise Our Lord Jesus, we can experience Heaven on earth, and sample Eden's glory today and everyday as we rest in His presence. It is within Him that we joyfully dress and care for the garden, which be Thy Kingdom come and where Heaven mingles with earth. I have experienced Heaven on earth in the midst of my days and now, as I promised earlier in my message, I would like to share the account, of my most recent journey to Eden.

I believe I, once before, mentioned my neighbors that live directly across the street and how they have two children, both of which are handicapped. The son, who is around 17 has a number of mental conditions that cause him to move through this world on the level of an eight year old. The girl, whom is my daughter's age (25) has never seen a day free of a wheel chair, suffering the effects of spinal bifida. Well, it so happened a few weeks ago their dad fell off the deck onto a chair and broke four ribs, which brought on pneumonia. Because of the complications of the pneumonia and the broken ribs inhibiting his breathing he was medically induced into a coma which then caused a whole rash of other medical problems. This man has truly been through a nightmare, but I am happy to report he arrived back home just today, where it is expected, he should recover fully.

Now, early last week all the neighbors got together and made plans to chip in for this family, with monetary gifts being the popular mode of support. When approached, I mentioned that I didn't have a dime for the cause. However, I said I would continue to help with that which I had already started; that being mowing, watering and care of the yards, along with tending the assorted flower beds.

During the second day of work on the yards I felt a wonderful peaceful transient feeling as I worked. Also as I mowed I was pleased to see the daughter siting in her wheel chair on the deck overseeing my efforts. When ever we would make eye contact as I mowed my way around the yard she would grin and give me a hearty thumbs up. This just tickled me because it was only a year or so ago that Nickie was in a medicated stupor most of the time. She was taking a number of medications to relieve the head aches she suffered. It also seemed every other month Nickie was visiting an out of state hospital, seeing specialists, getting tests and receiving different medical procedures in an attempt to free her of the incessant pain she was suffering. Well, it took a little common sense by a local general practice MD to ween her off all the pain medications. Sure enough when she was drug free her pain was gone along with her stupor. I often wonder if we don't acerbate our deceases with some of the medications we are prescribed. That thought expressed always make my personal physician frown and shake his head as I refuse his latest drug offerings for one symptom or another (lol). Any way it was such a delight to have an alert and eagle eyed foreman, in this little gal, looking over me as I tended the family yard and gardens. This was turning out to be an enjoyable and rewarding experience but nothing in comparison to that which I would enjoy later that night, while sleeping.

After making sure all in my life was surrendered to the will of His Majesty and praying for those named by the Holy Spirit I fell into my night's sleep. Somewhere in my slumber I was caught away in a most glorious re-visitation of my earlier lawn and garden tending duties. In reality this yard, I had been working on during the day, was over grown, unkempt and quite far from a thing of beauty. However, in this caught away realm, this same piece of land was beautiful beyond imagination. It wasn't so much that I was visually beholding my neighbor's yard any differently but I was so showered with such tremendous peace and joy as I worked, that all the plant life before me took on the same peaceful and joyful aura. I knew I had found the portal to God's paradise and the Eden garden, and I was experiencing the most incredible joy during my visit. I shall never forget this particular visitation to His glorious garden paradise and hopefully there will be more to come, Lord willing.

So you might ask what is the lesson in all this and I can only reply, "that as we give unto others, of His poured out life we for a certainty are dressing and keeping God's garden that surrounds Christ, the eternal Tree of Life. Whether it be by prayer, a monetary gift, a deed of love or even a loving smile shared with a stranger, if we are walking in the Spirit we are also cutting away the overgrowth of the fallen nature this world lies in. We are reclaiming and restoring Eden, a parcel at a time. I have to believe God has also taken many of you through the hidden gate, into His Glorious Garden. And in a variety of ways, I am sure you yourselves have been caught away to experience His great love, joy and peace gained through service paid to one of His children in need.

In closing I would like to share a remarkable message by Preston Eby where He explores the Land of the Interface, Heaven and earth met and the Garden of God. Be blessed dear friends and remember, if you care to visit Eden and experience paradise you don't need to travel to Sedona. Instead, you can walk across the street and love your neighbors or even better yet you can open up Eden's gate by praying for them.
Jack and Joian

The New Creation Man lives in two elements: the earth and also the heavens!

The Garden was not heaven, neither was it earth. It was a realm where God could walk, and where man could walk and talk with God. It was the dimension of the spiritual body spirit and body heaven and earth, visible and invisible, celestial and terrestrial, blended into one. The greatest of the glories of heaven was in that Garden the tree of life was there. And that was man's habitat. It was not merely where man was it was what he was.

This great truth of man's STATE OF BEING constituting the Garden of God is one of the tremendous themes which courses its way like a mighty river through the scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation. In the book of Revelation the Garden of Eden finally becomes the wonderful City of God which City we are (Rev. 21:9-11; Isa. 60:2,14). "And I saw the New Jerusalem...having the glory of God: and her light was like a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. And in the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded their fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him: and they shall see His face; and His name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever" (Rev. 21:10- 11 ; 22:1-).

How do you suppose the tree of life was transferred from the Garden of God to the City of God? The simple truth is it wasn't! The Garden still exists. The Garden is in the City. The Garden IS the City. In this City two realms interface once more the new heavens and the new earth not two separate entities, but that place where heaven and earth are joined, the Land of the Interface! This is where righteousness dwells the new mind and the new body. That is your world, my beloved. You and I belong to an interface. We are an interface. We are part heavenly and part earthly; part spiritual and part physical; part visible and part invisible. What is the New Jerusalem? It is the place of union with God in the interface where heaven and earth overlap. We are a colony from the heavenlies inhabiting the earthlies. We belong to neither and we belong to both. We are of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are in the Lord Jesus Christ, the HEAVENLY MAN. He, more than any other man, is an interface of these two realms. He is the second man, the last Adam. He embodies and reveals within Himself the true purpose of God in man.

Only in Christ can one understand the true nature of all things. He is of both these realms and He is in both of these realms. He is in both and He is in neither. It is a great and deep and glorious mystery. oh, the wonder of it! He is a MAN seated in the higher than all heavens! We who have been born of water and of the spirit are of His species. We are bone of His bone, flesh of His flesh, mind of His mind, spirit of His spirit, life of His life. We belong to His realm. We walk with Him today in the Garden of God, in the City of God, in the LAND OF THE INTERFACE, for it is the only place where we can comfortably move in both realms. And yet it is not both realms nor is it either realm it is a combination, the union of the two, an entirely NEW CREATION IN CHRIST JESUS! That's what you are! You are spirit and you are body. You are God and you are man. You are divine and you are human. That is our destiny to be both in union in one! That is our habitat. And redemption progressively brings us into our inheritance in this blessed Land of the Interface. The salvation of the soul, the redemption of the body, will complete the work. Let us press on, saints of God! The full splendor and bountifulness of this precious Land lies just before us! (Eby)

Others may do a greater work,
But you have your part to do;
And no one in all God's heritage
Can do it so well as you.

Lettie Cowman