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I'm Yours Lord .....
I remember it was a “big deal” to actually leave your church. As ministers we often discussed those who left the church as being deceived and sometimes in our "pompous ass way" prayed that the eyes of their understanding would be opened. Now, I am counted as one of the deceived…..lol
None who knew me would believe I could really leave CHURCH “forever”! After all, my family and I had been very good for the business…lol Our musical talents a gift from God were meant to be shared with his body, they and we belonged to the church! As a young girl the “church” had been my life, eventually it would even become my livelihood. You can understand how I thought this request from the Lord to leave and be taught by him, a temporary thing. Surely he would not hide me away with all my gifts and talents....on the shelf forever...that would be a WASTE...LOL...I had no idea that I would not leave that place until all was on the cross......and I would understand, all that came before was his plan for my life.
Eventually, I found this time alone with the Lord very much to my liking. Even refreshing; I began to revel in his care and love. It was during this time I found Tentmaker……there he drew me to what Jack Hennessey and many other brothers and sisters wrote. Six years have passed and I'm still outside the camp. During that time the Lord has dismantled much of my twisted carnal view of him. Many of those changes have been shared here on Sonshine.
One of those I met on Tentmaker was a brother who went by the name REB. He and Jack talked via phone during the Tentmaker years and were good friends. Like Jack, Roy’s (Reb’s) words always impacted me. Roy went through an extremely difficult time this last year. In fact a great deal of his walk, like many of us, has been extremely difficult and disappointing in the natural.
Roy told us last year that he was going to be quiet before the Lord and would get back with us when he was up to it. How we missed him. Then last week I once again received an e-mail. I was so touched by what he shared, I asked if we could post what he wrote, as we have been discussing so many of these same questions this month,…….he acquiesced. Roy's letter:
Greetings Joian!
You truly humble me by thinking that anything I would say or do would bring some glory to Him. In the last years, I have seen that I am the most unworthy of any that He might call. I have given up within myself at times. But, only by His magnificent grace, He continuously draws my attention all the more to Him in me. Ultimately, I can't deny that the Seed lives, that the Seed miraculously gains Life! How can this be? I weep at the thought.....
I am so afraid at times and cowardly. But, He lives! He is in me! I fight rivers of so many torrents of emotion right now. We are a raging sea. Again, miraculously, He is calming the sea within me. I am still not where I would hope He would have me.
The last years have been about great loss so as to gain. But, my eyes are still often too much on the loss instead of the gain. This way is impossible for men, but all things are possible to the Father. I am getting healthier in Spirit again.
The first part of this is a letter from a friend, then my response. I hope it makes sense the way I sent it along. Any comments Jack or you would wish to make are certainly welcome. If my responses are ever slow to any communications, please, be gracious toward me and know it has nothing to do with you. There is still much here that goes on each day that, well, too much to go into here....Here is my friend's letter and my response:
Greetings Roy,
See with what large letters I write? That is for two reasons. One is so that I can type this and read it without my glasses, and the other is that it makes it seem like it is more important to read!
I wanted to write this to you rather quickly so that I can head out to do some other more mundane tasks, like buy a decent toaster that will actually toast bread evenly! Two of them yesterday would toast one side, and not the other or burn one side and toast the other. The bagel function seemed to work on just plain bread which it is not supposed to do..... but I digress...
Anyway, I had a discussion with a friend of mine at work on Friday, I said I had 3 parts to basically the same question for him.
The first part was this:
What would you choose if God spoke to you and gave you the option of either living a relatively pain free life, one of little sorrow, or stress, or upset;
The other choice was to experience more of Him, so that you can have a deeper relationship with Him. That in the end you would agree to let Him drag you through pain and sorrow, and stress and upset, but in the end you would have a much closer relationship with Him, and get to know Him in a greater way!
The second part was simply..... What if He did not give you the option at all, but He decided to put you through all these troubles without your permission, or without even telling you, so that in the end it would bring about the same results as the first anyway?
Then after we discussed this for a little bit, and since he started his lunch before I got there, he had to leave....
I did say there was one more part, and that was.....
What if you ALREADY agreed to all of these things before you were even born on this earth??
Well, he was all excited at that point, because he said that it was funny that I brought that up to him, because it was something that he was already thinking about recently. That since we were with Him from before the foundation of the world, that perhaps, we knew then, but our birthing was our forgetting, and that now we are being brought back into remembrance of those things from before??
What do you think?? Either way, I mentioned that sorrow had torment when the sorrow seemed to be without purpose!! That it is much easier to endure things when we have a knowable goal! That if life just seemed random and meaningless, then every sorrow would seem without a purpose, and it would increase the torment that we endure! But perhaps if we know, or at least have confidence that EVERYTHING that we go through.... every splinter, every toe stub, every anguish, every sorrow, every struggle is all measured and brought about in order to accomplish one purpose.... to work into us the nature of Christ, and bring us to such a relationship with the Father that is possible no other way!!
Personally, I think you will agree, that we do know these things, but that perhaps we lose sight of it when we go through it, and that we will sometimes torment ourselves with the suggestion that it is purposeless!!
There is more to this than I have said so far, it is just more involved in typing it. But I will try to take some time a little later today or this week and tell you more. It is about the Lord dealing with me in a way about something and I seemed to just hear Him emphasize "character". When I would ask what to do? He would just answer... character! I knew what to do, but I was reluctant until the end.
Anyway, the search for a toaster that toasts is on!!
Blessings,
And, my(Roy) response:
Greetings Brother!
I hope you didn't buy a Proctor Silex toaster. Tina grabbed one of those somewhere a couple of years ago because they were cheap. I agreed with her reasoning that there couldn't really be too much rocket science to toasting toast.....Well, we end up getting the same results most of the time that you are getting. It burns our toast or does one side well and not the other side.As for your great questions, first, you said-
The first part was this -What would you choose if God spoke to you and gave you the option of either living a relatively pain free life, one of little sorrow, or stress, or upset, or the other choice was to experience more of Him, so that you can have a deeper relationship with Him. That in the end you would agree to let Him drag you through pain and sorrow, and stress and upset, but in the end you would have a much closer relationship with Him, and get to know Him in a greater way!
So many good points there to ponder and I can only answer from what I believe my personal experience is right now. I don't believe I am really given a choice as to my "calling" right now and I don't believe anyone else is either. Here is the ages old argument again blending in here about "will" and the exercise of our will. I don't believe in free will as you know and I know your beliefs well also, my friend.
But, I am more and more humbled over the years in trying to put into words what I believe about will. Is God sovereign? Certainly! Do we make decision after decision each day constantly exercising our own will? Certainly! These would seem to some to contradict to the extreme. But, you and I have discussed how these two really don't contradict, but, as I typed earlier here, hard to put "will" into good wording without rehashing many old points.
But I believe so many are now called to a multitude of diverse levels and missions in this world. As Ray Prinzing once said, and, I believe applies to me, if the Father wants me at the street corner at noon today I will be at the street corner at noon today. I might walk to the street corner in very good shape and with little harm or I may be dragged to the street corner kicking and screaming, bloody and bruised.......By His grace, He does seem to teach us more and more to seek that way to the street corner that is the way of lesser bruising!:-)
And, if you are called to know Him in some significant way now, then, is there a place to be spared the pain? I have tried to resist Him, to busy myself with the mundane things of life, but my thoughts then are always aware of those times when I was so close to Him, when I was blessed to sense His presence so near! So, alas, in each such circumstance, all seems vanity at some point except seeking Him and knowing His presence.
It is as if I were in love but tried to leave the relationship because some hard times came up and to find out in the time of separation that I am still so in love! Deep continues to call unto Deep and the carnal desires within me to cover it over and to no longer respond become more a thing of pain then to submit ever was!
So, if He has called, who escapes those difficult times? But, to learn in the difficult times to better sense His love and understand it.....
You have also said- The second part was simply..... What if He did not give you the option at all, but He decided to put you through all these troubles without your permission, or without even telling you, so that in the end it would bring about the same results as the first anyway?
I think I have already partially answered this question from my humble fragments of knowledge that He has imparted. But, I think of those that go through this life, maybe never naming Christ as Savior and Lord......I often think that there are those that the knowledge of Who He is comes later, though they go through the processing now....
Some have their sins go on before them, others after. Some are those that are first but really last as much as those that are last are truly first. Is He not capable of seeing some through these times of earthly travail, even having them consciously denying much of what He is, even consciously denying His name or what has been represented to them as being of Him, yet, He is anonymously showing them His true self and changing them into His image unbeknownst to them?
Does He not still come to us as a thief in the night many times as we have not known to keep the lamps lit and He comes at an hour we are unaware of. Yet, He does a good work by us and in us! It is just so much better to be conscious of Him and to know more of what is actually going on here!
You said-What if you ALREADY agreed to all of these things before you were even born on this earth??
Like I think you do, I also think that we did! Ha! Ha! Well, he was all excited at that point, because he said that it was funny that I brought that up to him, because it was something that he was already thinking about recently. That since we were with Him from before the foundation of the world, that perhaps, we knew then, but our birthing was our forgetting, and that now we are being brought back into remembrance of those things from before??
As we just shared recently in another letter, yes, I think that when we receive revelation from the Lord we are remembering. The sense and the feeling is the same for me and there are too many scriptures that make an argument for preexistence of the spirit within us and it coming out from the Father. Yet, that spirit within truly receives power when merged again with His Spirit, His Holy Spirit. This is when Jesus said they would be given "power from on high." In the book of Acts they received the baptism of His Spirit. But, this doesn't rule out for me that some receive these things in wondrous and amazing ways as He would will it maybe somewhat different in degrees and circumstances of experience to my own.
But, we know if they be of the same Spirit or if it just be soul power mistaken for such in some as spiritual revelation. But, if He could cleanse the prostitutes and the publicans and sinners first, what other surprises does He have in store for us? And, the way up often appears to be down......
You said- What do you think?? Either way, I mentioned that sorrow had torment when the sorrow seemed to be without purpose!! That it is much easier to endure things when we have a knowable goal! That if life just seemed random and meaningless, then every sorrow would seem without a purpose, and it would increase the torment that we endure! But perhaps if we know, or at least have confidence that EVERYTHING that we go through.... every splinter, every toe stub, every anguish, every sorrow, every struggle is all measured and brought about in order to accomplish one purpose.... to work into us the nature of Christ, and bring us to such a relationship with the Father that is possible no other way!!
Personally, I think you will agree, that we do know these things, but that perhaps we lose sight of it when we go through it, and that we will sometimes torment ourselves with the suggestion that it is purposeless!!
I agree with all this also, as I do with all you said here, dear Brother! Remember the old song that goes "There is one thing greater than faith and that is purpose....."
Yes, it is a great gift from Him when He at least shows us why we are going through certain circumstances and that He is in it.
Sometimes the pain is so great or our vision not what it should be......."Can you not even stay awake with me for one hour?" He says, and at times, I must still answer back, "No, Lord. I grow too weary....." But, all of His purposes in us are of GREAT value. All He does in us is for our good! He brings more life within us, more of Himself, with each movement.
I enjoyed your letter very much, Brother! It is great to discuss these things with kindred of His Spirit!
Jesus is LORD! May He grant you a multitude of hot, evenly toasted toast!
Roy
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