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How often when in the midst of our studies and searchings of the deep and hidden things of God are we reminded of and brought back to the simple truths of of God's love. Such is the case for me tonight as I remember once more the far reach of God's love in His seeking me out when I was lost. This remembrance causes me to pause and thank Him once again. I pray after you read this short story and accompanying poem you also might find pause to thank Him once again.
My friends, no one will ever out run Jesus. Jesus will follow a man everywhere and eventually demand his heart's surrender. Jesus is the Good Shepard.
"One night in Melbourne, Australia I had been engaged in writing in a newspaper office. I had been asked to write something for that paper, and I had written it for God, and for the people. It was very late. I came downstairs, and stood out in the cold night air for a moment, with bared head. I was looking up at the stars from the quiet, silent street. A little way off was a great thoroughfare where the people were coming out of the theater, and were crowding the street. I was in a quiet part of the street, standing there thinking what way I should go home; whether I should take a cab or whether I should walk.
"I was enjoying, for a moment or two, that cool, fresh air, when I heard a clear and beautiful voice say to me, 'Good evening, sir.' I turned around and saw the lovely face of a very beautiful girl. I said, 'Good evening,' but I trembled as I said it; because I knew at once what kind of woman she was. Yet she did not seem to be deeply stained with sin. 'Good evening,' she said; and I again said, 'Good evening,' and that was all. She said, 'Will you go home with me?' And then, having silently prayed, I turned to her and said, 'Home with you?' 'Yes.' 'Where is your home?' So she told me. 'Oh, no,' I said, 'that is not your home. Your home is the house of her which is the gate of hell. The dead are there. If I went home with you I should share the fate of all who enter there, unless God delivers them. But will you go home with me?' She was trembling violently, holding on to an iron post with a ring at the top of it, and her fingers were grasping the ring. 'Home with you?' she said. 'Yes, sir, but where do you live?' I said, 'I live on earth, but my home is in the heavens. Oh, won't you go home with me to heaven, I will take you to a lovely woman tonight in Melbourne who will be as kind to you as to her own daughter.' She then knew that she had spoken to one who was a child of God.
"I am sure that she had not been long in sin. She opened her eyes wide and held up her hand, and I will never forget her cry - 'It is too late. The waters have gone over me. It is too late,' and with that she darted away. I went after her, but she was lost in a moment amidst the great multitude that was surging up and down the streets. 'Too late! The waters have gone over me.' I went home that night with these words ringing in my ears: 'Too late! Too late! The waters have gone over me.' I said, 'It is not so, God; we shall search for that woman in this city until we find her.' And blessed be God, today that woman is living a holy and happy and virtuous life" J. A. Dowie
"Where are you going Shepherd?
To find My sheep.
How far will you go?
As far as My sheep.
How far may that be?
To the world's end.
How long will you seek it?
Until I find it.
When you find it,
will it come to you?
No, it will flee from Me.
Where will it go then?
To the rocks and the sand.
When will it stop?
When it can run no more.
What will you do then?
Carry it home."
The scriptures tell us this Shepard that hung on the cross will not lose even one sheep. Oh, how shall we not weep as we learn of His great love toward us.
Jack
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We cannot contain the overflowing cup of His love thus we share with you these messages of the Life of our Lord as lived out in His saints.
FREEDOM FROM THE TERROR OF THE HELL FIRE DOCTRINE "A Minister's Testimony"
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I thought to add to my last message this testimony of a minister's journey to freedom ........... freedom from the terror of man's hell fire doctrine. May you be blessed and may you be free to enjoy our Father's unmerited gift of Love through His Son, Christ Jesus.
Jack
Deliverance From Chronic Manic Suicidal Depression
Testimony of a Minister, Charles Slagle
Experience Explodes Arguments
After six months of agony, it happened overnight. It happened when my desperately wounded heart finally became convinced God loves me. It happened when I suddenly knew that My heavenly Father truly had created all things for His pleasure -- myself and loved ones and you and your loved ones, and they and their loved ones, and they and their loved ones... I woke up on May 1st of 1996 instantly free from:
deeply rooted fear of God's hopeless abandonment
chronic manic suicidal depression
any desire whatsoever for alcohol, until this very day
dependence on five prescriptions of anti-depressants and related medications
tormenting sexual night dreams and obsessions that had recurred off and on since age twelve and had brought great heartache in my marriage
self-hatred
chronic insomnia
a love/hate relationship with God and the morbid perfectionism resulting that had nearly ruined my life and marriage
After my attempted suicide in August of 1995 my wife, Paula, was deeply heartbroken. However, she found herself with no choice but to commit me to the care of a Christian psychiatric hospital. I was also under the wonderful care of Helen Crossland, founder of Homes of Hope Ministries, and the godly and refreshing influence of her husband, Don. Bless them, bless them, Lord! Had it not been for their wise counsel (including that of our on-going seasoned inner-healing counselor and spiritual mom, Carolyn Barnett) I probably would be a goner today. I also thank God for the unconditional love, wise counsel, -- deep generosity -- and caring heart of Dr. Wanda Stephens, founder of Living Hope Institute in Little Rock, Arkansas. I also owe much to Dr. David Haas for believing in me when I had lost all ability to believe in myself. The same goes for Dick King who pastors Emmanuel Baptist Church. Also I owe deepest thanks, along with Paula, to the proven friends and partners of our ministry. They continued to support us financially during the very darkest days of our lives. And thank God, for all who continue to do so. We will need support as the Lord leads and anoints us to impart His healing hope to those who weep under the shadow of darkness. Bless them abundantly, dear Father! And bless all our dear and proven friends who have sacrificed much in order to shower us with love and every kind of assistance possible. (And friends, you KNOW who you are, need I mention?)
Back to my story... I had attempted suicide. What had happened? I had lost all hope. That's what had happened. About a year before I went under, I was given a book that contained selections from George MacDonald's writings. (Anyone remember the Scotsman C.S. Lewis often referred to as his spiritual master/teacher?)
As I read and re-read that book over the next several months, I often blubbered and cried like a baby. Was it possible? Could it be that God could be that good? I began searching the Scriptures. But it was too late. The damage to the memory banks of my brain's neuron cells was too massive. My head could hope, but my heart could not. I had spent too many years trying to find wholeness the wrong way. Too many years trying to meditate on the love of my heavenly Father while also trying desperately to believe with integrity:
God's unfailing love is unconditional -- but -- on the following conditions:
That you are in the elect (Calvinism) or that God has foreknown that you are one of the few who will repent -- in this lifetime (Arminianism).
That you hear of Christ in this lifetime.
That you respond to Him in this lifetime.
That you trust only in His mercy and His grace -- as well as walk in consistent obedience. For thus you must prove your salvation (Calvinism) or assure your salvation (Arminianism).
That you don't die in sin.
That you endure until the end. (Based on a wrong interpretation of Scripture)
God is committed love/God's love, however, is not committed to many people (Calvinism).
God loves everyone with total commitment -- but, however, even so ... (Arminianism).
God has chosen to help some people/God has chosen to abandon most people.
God saves hopeful failures/God gets rid of hopeless failures.
Love is kind/Love has spawned billions of people He already knows are doomed for endless fiery disaster.
God is all powerful and loves you. However, He has ordained that your free will shall be the bottom line factor that determines your eternal destiny. Thus, your identity -- whether a child of God or a child of everlasting evil and darkness -- depends on your willpower.
God is the Savior of all/He is not the Savior of all.
You must love the Lord with all your heart, though He is not fully committed to you or anyone else, unless people are diligent to trust and obey. In other words, He loves you, but don't count on it.
God is Everlasting Forgiveness/Eternal Wrath and Vindictiveness
Our Lord is utterly victorious and will destroy the devil's works. Yet the devil will destroy most of Christ's works (people) forever.
God is worthy of all power, honor and praise because He has created a few things for His pleasure. However, when I sing that chorus, I must say "all things."
God is Sovereign, so He can commit any atrocity He pleases (Calvinistic agony once again.) Or -God is good, but the whole reason He gave us free wills was so He would eventually have a universe forever divided between "winners" and 'losers." A universe He will weep over for all eternity. In other words, God loves pain!? (Armininian torment again.)
You can count on God if you are in the "elect." (Calvinism). Or
You can count on God if He can count on you. (Arminianism).
You must believe all the Lord says in His Word, but don't take all He says too seriously. On the other hand -- perhaps you had better take Him more seriously. Yes or no? (How could we Armininian Christians talk so much about grace even while we teetered on the brink of a possible Christless infinity!?)
God, in His holy, sovereign grace, may have chosen you for salvation. How dare that you not rejoice that your friends, neighbors and loved ones may be predestined for eternal torment! Truly spiritual people can delight and hope in the Lord no matter what! Charles, what's wrong with you!? (Torment from my attempt to cling to Calvinism)
The Lord is gracious, tenderhearted, compassionate and patient. He does not cast off forever because of the multitude of His mercies. Even so, it isn't wise to carry that idea too far. He gets rid of some people That is, He 'loses ability" to ever reach them, etc., etc.... That does sound nicer, doesn't it? (Armininism. again.)
All of these hopeless contradictions were entrenched in my belief system, posing as "truths."
Shocking?
Have a look at these...
God thinks you are "very special." Don't worry that in His foreknowledge He's written off most everyone else. Just trust...
Perhaps God wants us to believe all the Bible, but not to think about parts of it too much so we'll have courage to trust in His grace? Also He wants us Christians to preach only the comforting parts of it -- at least most of the time, in order to make Him appear nice? (Calv-Armininian agony working.)
Maybe God hopes everyone in the world will at least feel loved by Christians before He consigns most everyone to endless torment. In the meanwhile, we Christians should oppose abortion (!) and build hospitals and try to provide every help possible for the world's starving and homeless multitudes ... ? (Believe me, I tried very hard not to think about this horrifying contradiction.)
All earth's families will be blessed in Christ, Abraham's "Seed." Well, a little bit, for a few years (so I was trained to believe) -- before most of them are sentenced to endless despair. (Powerful promise, huh?)
God loves you and is committed to you for who you are, not for what you do. Nevertheless, He has already planned in advance to abandon most people because of what they do or don't do.
God is love/hate (Guess which system!)
God is good, but ... (Guess which system!)
You can trust God, though it isn't wise to trust Him too much. You must trust the reliability of your free will. For it is appointed unto man once to die, and after that --no hope.
And here's the heartbreaker: Jesus loves all the little children of the world -- red and yellow, black and white. Are they precious in His sight? Yes -- they are precious until they reach the age of accountability.
Need I say more? My "God-Picture" was utter chaos! Ironic, isn't it? After all, I had written and published two devotional books, revealing the loving heart of my heavenly Father. What made it worse was, my loving Father actually was revealing His true heart to me. Even in the early eighties (I can see it now!) He was beginning His blessed invasion. In the meantime my spirit knew Him in one way, but my brain perceived Him in another way.
Talk about agony! Problem was, at the time I had no adequate SCRIPTURAL FOUNDATION for the kind of "Father of tender mercies" I was hearing from and conveying in my speaking and writing. So yes, my understanding of the Lord had finally evolved into something beautiful. But was it too beautiful? That's what disturbed me -- it was only the "beautiful" side of God that gave me any hope whatsoever! What I dared not do was to think much about His austere aspects, His judgments -- at least as tradition has taught us to perceive them. For in my framework of understanding there was no hope in God's judgments. Not for despairing people who could not hope or people who are not in the "elect." (Depending on whether my tortured mind was laboring under the despair of Arminianism or Calvinism.)
But in the throes of my own battles against the world, the flesh and the devil, how could I avoid thinking of the Lord's judgments on occasions? Besides, I had felt a growing uneasiness with the way I had always approached the Bible: meditate on the nice parts, "believe" the horrifying parts, but don't believe them too much. I had to find some sort of grace to count on! So my policy had been to stuff "Everlasting Horrors We Must Believe About God" in a "backfile" in my brain, labeled "Required Orthodox Tenets" and then try not to think of them much. I've often wondered if my Calvinistic and Armininian friends do the same thing...
Is that your policy? If you're deeply wounded and scrambling to survive while searching for healing, I do not recommend it. That is exactly what I did for years! I "backfiled" much of my belief system. Believe me, this is a sure recipe for eventual insanity!
Now. I want to ask a respectful, yet honest question of my readers. Especially Christian pastors and counselors: how can we help thinking people get healed of deep inner traumas while encouraging them to "believe" -- and yet -- not be too concerned about all that is written in the holy Word of our Lord? Unless we can behold our loving Lord in all of His terrible (awesome!) beauty, how can our hearts ever be fashioned into His holy likeness? Is the secret of deepest healing of the heart found in playing "believe, but don't think about" mind games with the Bible? Is that how the Lord (secretly) expects we should deal with His Word?
That, I regret to report, was my way of ministry for many years. For I knew no other way to convey God's heart as my spirit knew Him to be. But praise the Lord! Those days are over. However, perhaps, as a leader or counselor, you have been "stuck" in the same way I was. You know that healing can only come when people know they are valued and loved unconditionally. But your paradigm or concept of the gospel has forced you (unconsciously, as was true in my own case) to "downplay" certain parts of Scripture to help people entrapped in paranoia. I'm praying the Lord will use this book to help free you to minister what your heart already knows.
Identity! Identity is what spawns behavior. Identity is what determines desires, emotions, perceptions and feelings. I am convinced that any interpretation of Scripture that undermines a solid sense of identity, HAS to be wrong. For IDENTITY is what Christ came to give us! He is the Light that shines on every infant that enters, kicking and squalling, into this pain-wracked world.
Calvinism undermines identity. It tells us we have purpose (a good purpose) and value -- if -- we can be CERTAIN our conversion experience and all subsequent "confirmations" we receive of it aren't spurious. Furthermore, it transmits to us a bone-chilling picture of God: God is Holy Love/Holy Love is everlastingly wrathful, unforgiving, arbitrary and biased. Calvinism is embarrassing to its adherents. It forces them (the grace-oriented ones) to present the gospel sounding much like they believe in Christ's total triumph. Afterwards, however, Calvinist leaders are forced to train their new converts to become either arrogant religionists who feel superior to the "non-elect" or despairing manic depressives.
Arminianism (and its half-brother, Calv-Arminianism) undermines identity. I am not criticizing people who embrace any of these systems. Many Christians are like I was for years -- what other choice do we have? I understand that. However, now that you have read these pages, you are seeing that there is abundance of Scripture for more hope, aren't you? My earnest prayer is that you will prayerfully study the Scriptures.
Arminianism. leaves the identity issue open to question. It transmits this picture of God: God is Holy Love/Holy Love is noncommitted or weak. For if our frail sin-impaired wills ultimately determine if we are God's children or children of eternal damnation -- who we ARE -- then deepest healing will elude us in this life. How can we trust a "God" who tells us we had better trust in ourselves? We will not have time to be healed. We will be too busy trying to make right choices! How do I know this? I've been there! And again, Arminian Christians will find themselves singing and preaching (as much as possible) as if they believed in Christ's Total Victory. (Except the "legalistic" ones who take their theology seriously.) However, their new converts will be trained: "Bottomline, it's up to you." And the result? The same result as Calvinism: some people becoming self-righteous religionists (as long as their youth and vitality hold out) and others becoming suicidal manic depressives. And of course, there will be a good number of people in all the above systems who will manage to maintain a semblance of balance and cope pretty well. That is, until they experience enough agony of self-doubt to desire answers to hard questions.
What is the cure for all of this? Just to do what 20th century grace-oriented evangelical churches have always been doing? Keep sweeping the hard Bible bits under the carpet? Even while we publicly talk in terms of 'Identity" and "unconditional love" and "resting in God's grace?" To the agony of our thoughtful listeners who are struggling? Is this the answer?
No! Enough is enough. The lie of conditional love must die or we cannot live. We can exist and cope -we can even appear to live -- but that lie must bite the dust so we can live. It's time that we Bible-believing Christians stop fearing being ostracized or unkindly labeled. It's time that, for the sake of our children, we understand and proclaim Christ as the thoroughly GOOD NEWS He is. Our children cannot live with true righteousness or hope unless they know Whose -- and who -- they ARE.
I'm a new man because I now can delight in all I know about my heavenly Father. I no longer "backfile" His judgments, I rejoice in them! I can hope in his judgments and even sing of His judgments --even His age-abiding judgments. I now know that My Heavenly Father is committed. Not just 'loving," but committed. What a difference that meditating on His utter goodness has made in my life! Ask Paula! My wife will tell you -- even my friends who have yet to see the fullness of God's love as we've seen it will. tell you. I'm a changed Charles. I know who I am. I love being a husband and a grandpa more than ever these days and so enjoy being alive. YES! And my identity is not "minister" (though I love the ministry!)
Paula and I so yearn that others experience the wholeness God has brought into our hearts and our home. It's been prophesied by individuals -- worldwide -- who knew nothing about us, that a dream in our hearts will happen. What is that dream?
For many years, Paula and I have envisioned teaming up with other ministries the Lord will join to us to bring healing to broken hearts. Especially for hearts that have endured harsh spiritual abuse. And all based on: "God loves you, but you must..." Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying I have no appreciation for the fact that the Lord wants us to learn to make good choices. Nor am I saying the Lord does not want each of us to feel uniquely special to Him And by no means am I saying we shouldn't encourage people in a wholesome fear of the Lord. Anyone who has lived for a few decades knows our Lord's judgments are real. Actions produce consequences! However, fear of rejection is the most common culprit that catapults people into destructive behavior.
We cannot have it both ways. We cannot teach unconditional love -- and at the same time -- tell shattered people that God's unfailing love is (somehow?) conditional. Whether it be conditioned on their "special election" or conditioned on their performance! Such non-sense is not the gospel. It's heartbreaking despair. Have you ever wondered why some Christians become atheists? Or commit suicide? Having read these pages you can see why, but those are the kind of people our hearts yearn after. We know the Lord's heart yearns after them even more. Are you drowning in the quagmire of spiritual despair? Take heart, my friend! Salvation is not a gamble, it is a Gift -- it's not of works, but of Christ -so no one can boast! Very soon the time is coming when the body of Christ will believe what it has sung about and proclaimed. The Lord is up to something -- magnificent!
Oops! I got up on my soapbox again, didn't I? Back to the vision... Paula and I yearn to be part of a team that listens to the Holy Spirit, and in His wisdom and power liberates spiritually and emotionally abused hearts so they will hope again. We envision a "Restoration Ranch." It will be out in the country (somewhere!) next to a large lake. (For years, perfect strangers have described this vision to us prophetically -- in detail! -having no natural knowledge of what the Lord had put in our hearts.) We envision serious chemical, sexual and emotional addictions being healed. Marriages healed! Christian leaders restored and made whole.
We also envision a "school of the Holy Spirit" on the same grounds. It will be "hands on, learn as you listen to God" training for Christians who yearn to learn to hear the Holy Spirit for the healing of wounded hearts. We KNOW this vision will happen. Interestingly enough, the Lord has now "maneuvered" us to live in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area where He long ago told us He would establish it! Awesome, huh? So very interesting things have been stirring -- Praise the Lord!
Salvation by faith in Christ alone, the holiness of God, the miraculous ministry of the Holy Spirit -- all of those wonderful realities have been "coming back" to the body of Christ over the last five hundred years.
What's next? Every fiber of my being sings that the Lord is about to reveal His true heart and plan for His creation to many, many people worldwide. It won't be long before the FULL "faith once delivered to the saints" will return to us all, accompanied by unprecedented signs and wonders. Hide and watch! And when God's firstborn family members know their identity -- watch out, world! Christ's healing light will shine on you.
The following is taken from Charles Slagle's devotional "From The Father's Heart"
REMEMBER Isa. 52:14; John 3:16
Child,
I AM just, pure and holy. My love is limitless and seeks not its own. When those dark thoughts cloud your mind, causing you to question My love, I ask that you do one thing: remember the cross.
See it now. See the One crucified, See the humiliation, the horror of Innocence disrobed, mutilated and bleeding. Pain racks His every atom. Each gasp of air is agony untold. His every nerve is a conduit of fire.
Can you hear Him cry? No one else can either, but I can. I hear it forever - how could I forget it? It's almost the sound of a boy - a stifled, intermittent cry it is...
No, child, don't turn away. Not yet, please. Do you see the thorns piercing His brow? The disfigurement of His face? The spikes splitting His hands and His feet? The jeering crowds at the foot of His cross? They didn't kill him. They would have if they could have -but they could not. He gave His life. He shielded His enemies who were worthy of death by dying Himself in their stead. He suffered murder to save His murderers. He suffered shame to save His mockers. And He would do it again. Again and again. And so would I. Is this not the destiny of Perfect Love in a fallen world?
This is the way love is, and this is the way I AM. Never forget it.
Entreatingly,
Father
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I thought to add to my last message this testimony of a minister's journey to freedom ........... freedom from the terror of man's hell fire doctrine. May you be blessed and may you be free to enjoy our Father's unmerited gift of Love through His Son, Christ Jesus.
Jack
Deliverance From Chronic Manic Suicidal Depression
Testimony of a Minister, Charles Slagle
Experience Explodes Arguments
After six months of agony, it happened overnight. It happened when my desperately wounded heart finally became convinced God loves me. It happened when I suddenly knew that My heavenly Father truly had created all things for His pleasure -- myself and loved ones and you and your loved ones, and they and their loved ones, and they and their loved ones... I woke up on May 1st of 1996 instantly free from:
deeply rooted fear of God's hopeless abandonment
chronic manic suicidal depression
any desire whatsoever for alcohol, until this very day
dependence on five prescriptions of anti-depressants and related medications
tormenting sexual night dreams and obsessions that had recurred off and on since age twelve and had brought great heartache in my marriage
self-hatred
chronic insomnia
a love/hate relationship with God and the morbid perfectionism resulting that had nearly ruined my life and marriage
After my attempted suicide in August of 1995 my wife, Paula, was deeply heartbroken. However, she found herself with no choice but to commit me to the care of a Christian psychiatric hospital. I was also under the wonderful care of Helen Crossland, founder of Homes of Hope Ministries, and the godly and refreshing influence of her husband, Don. Bless them, bless them, Lord! Had it not been for their wise counsel (including that of our on-going seasoned inner-healing counselor and spiritual mom, Carolyn Barnett) I probably would be a goner today. I also thank God for the unconditional love, wise counsel, -- deep generosity -- and caring heart of Dr. Wanda Stephens, founder of Living Hope Institute in Little Rock, Arkansas. I also owe much to Dr. David Haas for believing in me when I had lost all ability to believe in myself. The same goes for Dick King who pastors Emmanuel Baptist Church. Also I owe deepest thanks, along with Paula, to the proven friends and partners of our ministry. They continued to support us financially during the very darkest days of our lives. And thank God, for all who continue to do so. We will need support as the Lord leads and anoints us to impart His healing hope to those who weep under the shadow of darkness. Bless them abundantly, dear Father! And bless all our dear and proven friends who have sacrificed much in order to shower us with love and every kind of assistance possible. (And friends, you KNOW who you are, need I mention?)
Back to my story... I had attempted suicide. What had happened? I had lost all hope. That's what had happened. About a year before I went under, I was given a book that contained selections from George MacDonald's writings. (Anyone remember the Scotsman C.S. Lewis often referred to as his spiritual master/teacher?)
As I read and re-read that book over the next several months, I often blubbered and cried like a baby. Was it possible? Could it be that God could be that good? I began searching the Scriptures. But it was too late. The damage to the memory banks of my brain's neuron cells was too massive. My head could hope, but my heart could not. I had spent too many years trying to find wholeness the wrong way. Too many years trying to meditate on the love of my heavenly Father while also trying desperately to believe with integrity:
God's unfailing love is unconditional -- but -- on the following conditions:
That you are in the elect (Calvinism) or that God has foreknown that you are one of the few who will repent -- in this lifetime (Arminianism).
That you hear of Christ in this lifetime.
That you respond to Him in this lifetime.
That you trust only in His mercy and His grace -- as well as walk in consistent obedience. For thus you must prove your salvation (Calvinism) or assure your salvation (Arminianism).
That you don't die in sin.
That you endure until the end. (Based on a wrong interpretation of Scripture)
God is committed love/God's love, however, is not committed to many people (Calvinism).
God loves everyone with total commitment -- but, however, even so ... (Arminianism).
God has chosen to help some people/God has chosen to abandon most people.
God saves hopeful failures/God gets rid of hopeless failures.
Love is kind/Love has spawned billions of people He already knows are doomed for endless fiery disaster.
God is all powerful and loves you. However, He has ordained that your free will shall be the bottom line factor that determines your eternal destiny. Thus, your identity -- whether a child of God or a child of everlasting evil and darkness -- depends on your willpower.
God is the Savior of all/He is not the Savior of all.
You must love the Lord with all your heart, though He is not fully committed to you or anyone else, unless people are diligent to trust and obey. In other words, He loves you, but don't count on it.
God is Everlasting Forgiveness/Eternal Wrath and Vindictiveness
Our Lord is utterly victorious and will destroy the devil's works. Yet the devil will destroy most of Christ's works (people) forever.
God is worthy of all power, honor and praise because He has created a few things for His pleasure. However, when I sing that chorus, I must say "all things."
God is Sovereign, so He can commit any atrocity He pleases (Calvinistic agony once again.) Or -God is good, but the whole reason He gave us free wills was so He would eventually have a universe forever divided between "winners" and 'losers." A universe He will weep over for all eternity. In other words, God loves pain!? (Armininian torment again.)
You can count on God if you are in the "elect." (Calvinism). Or
You can count on God if He can count on you. (Arminianism).
You must believe all the Lord says in His Word, but don't take all He says too seriously. On the other hand -- perhaps you had better take Him more seriously. Yes or no? (How could we Armininian Christians talk so much about grace even while we teetered on the brink of a possible Christless infinity!?)
God, in His holy, sovereign grace, may have chosen you for salvation. How dare that you not rejoice that your friends, neighbors and loved ones may be predestined for eternal torment! Truly spiritual people can delight and hope in the Lord no matter what! Charles, what's wrong with you!? (Torment from my attempt to cling to Calvinism)
The Lord is gracious, tenderhearted, compassionate and patient. He does not cast off forever because of the multitude of His mercies. Even so, it isn't wise to carry that idea too far. He gets rid of some people That is, He 'loses ability" to ever reach them, etc., etc.... That does sound nicer, doesn't it? (Armininism. again.)
All of these hopeless contradictions were entrenched in my belief system, posing as "truths."
Shocking?
Have a look at these...
God thinks you are "very special." Don't worry that in His foreknowledge He's written off most everyone else. Just trust...
Perhaps God wants us to believe all the Bible, but not to think about parts of it too much so we'll have courage to trust in His grace? Also He wants us Christians to preach only the comforting parts of it -- at least most of the time, in order to make Him appear nice? (Calv-Armininian agony working.)
Maybe God hopes everyone in the world will at least feel loved by Christians before He consigns most everyone to endless torment. In the meanwhile, we Christians should oppose abortion (!) and build hospitals and try to provide every help possible for the world's starving and homeless multitudes ... ? (Believe me, I tried very hard not to think about this horrifying contradiction.)
All earth's families will be blessed in Christ, Abraham's "Seed." Well, a little bit, for a few years (so I was trained to believe) -- before most of them are sentenced to endless despair. (Powerful promise, huh?)
God loves you and is committed to you for who you are, not for what you do. Nevertheless, He has already planned in advance to abandon most people because of what they do or don't do.
God is love/hate (Guess which system!)
God is good, but ... (Guess which system!)
You can trust God, though it isn't wise to trust Him too much. You must trust the reliability of your free will. For it is appointed unto man once to die, and after that --no hope.
And here's the heartbreaker: Jesus loves all the little children of the world -- red and yellow, black and white. Are they precious in His sight? Yes -- they are precious until they reach the age of accountability.
Need I say more? My "God-Picture" was utter chaos! Ironic, isn't it? After all, I had written and published two devotional books, revealing the loving heart of my heavenly Father. What made it worse was, my loving Father actually was revealing His true heart to me. Even in the early eighties (I can see it now!) He was beginning His blessed invasion. In the meantime my spirit knew Him in one way, but my brain perceived Him in another way.
Talk about agony! Problem was, at the time I had no adequate SCRIPTURAL FOUNDATION for the kind of "Father of tender mercies" I was hearing from and conveying in my speaking and writing. So yes, my understanding of the Lord had finally evolved into something beautiful. But was it too beautiful? That's what disturbed me -- it was only the "beautiful" side of God that gave me any hope whatsoever! What I dared not do was to think much about His austere aspects, His judgments -- at least as tradition has taught us to perceive them. For in my framework of understanding there was no hope in God's judgments. Not for despairing people who could not hope or people who are not in the "elect." (Depending on whether my tortured mind was laboring under the despair of Arminianism or Calvinism.)
But in the throes of my own battles against the world, the flesh and the devil, how could I avoid thinking of the Lord's judgments on occasions? Besides, I had felt a growing uneasiness with the way I had always approached the Bible: meditate on the nice parts, "believe" the horrifying parts, but don't believe them too much. I had to find some sort of grace to count on! So my policy had been to stuff "Everlasting Horrors We Must Believe About God" in a "backfile" in my brain, labeled "Required Orthodox Tenets" and then try not to think of them much. I've often wondered if my Calvinistic and Armininian friends do the same thing...
Is that your policy? If you're deeply wounded and scrambling to survive while searching for healing, I do not recommend it. That is exactly what I did for years! I "backfiled" much of my belief system. Believe me, this is a sure recipe for eventual insanity!
Now. I want to ask a respectful, yet honest question of my readers. Especially Christian pastors and counselors: how can we help thinking people get healed of deep inner traumas while encouraging them to "believe" -- and yet -- not be too concerned about all that is written in the holy Word of our Lord? Unless we can behold our loving Lord in all of His terrible (awesome!) beauty, how can our hearts ever be fashioned into His holy likeness? Is the secret of deepest healing of the heart found in playing "believe, but don't think about" mind games with the Bible? Is that how the Lord (secretly) expects we should deal with His Word?
That, I regret to report, was my way of ministry for many years. For I knew no other way to convey God's heart as my spirit knew Him to be. But praise the Lord! Those days are over. However, perhaps, as a leader or counselor, you have been "stuck" in the same way I was. You know that healing can only come when people know they are valued and loved unconditionally. But your paradigm or concept of the gospel has forced you (unconsciously, as was true in my own case) to "downplay" certain parts of Scripture to help people entrapped in paranoia. I'm praying the Lord will use this book to help free you to minister what your heart already knows.
Identity! Identity is what spawns behavior. Identity is what determines desires, emotions, perceptions and feelings. I am convinced that any interpretation of Scripture that undermines a solid sense of identity, HAS to be wrong. For IDENTITY is what Christ came to give us! He is the Light that shines on every infant that enters, kicking and squalling, into this pain-wracked world.
Calvinism undermines identity. It tells us we have purpose (a good purpose) and value -- if -- we can be CERTAIN our conversion experience and all subsequent "confirmations" we receive of it aren't spurious. Furthermore, it transmits to us a bone-chilling picture of God: God is Holy Love/Holy Love is everlastingly wrathful, unforgiving, arbitrary and biased. Calvinism is embarrassing to its adherents. It forces them (the grace-oriented ones) to present the gospel sounding much like they believe in Christ's total triumph. Afterwards, however, Calvinist leaders are forced to train their new converts to become either arrogant religionists who feel superior to the "non-elect" or despairing manic depressives.
Arminianism (and its half-brother, Calv-Arminianism) undermines identity. I am not criticizing people who embrace any of these systems. Many Christians are like I was for years -- what other choice do we have? I understand that. However, now that you have read these pages, you are seeing that there is abundance of Scripture for more hope, aren't you? My earnest prayer is that you will prayerfully study the Scriptures.
Arminianism. leaves the identity issue open to question. It transmits this picture of God: God is Holy Love/Holy Love is noncommitted or weak. For if our frail sin-impaired wills ultimately determine if we are God's children or children of eternal damnation -- who we ARE -- then deepest healing will elude us in this life. How can we trust a "God" who tells us we had better trust in ourselves? We will not have time to be healed. We will be too busy trying to make right choices! How do I know this? I've been there! And again, Arminian Christians will find themselves singing and preaching (as much as possible) as if they believed in Christ's Total Victory. (Except the "legalistic" ones who take their theology seriously.) However, their new converts will be trained: "Bottomline, it's up to you." And the result? The same result as Calvinism: some people becoming self-righteous religionists (as long as their youth and vitality hold out) and others becoming suicidal manic depressives. And of course, there will be a good number of people in all the above systems who will manage to maintain a semblance of balance and cope pretty well. That is, until they experience enough agony of self-doubt to desire answers to hard questions.
What is the cure for all of this? Just to do what 20th century grace-oriented evangelical churches have always been doing? Keep sweeping the hard Bible bits under the carpet? Even while we publicly talk in terms of 'Identity" and "unconditional love" and "resting in God's grace?" To the agony of our thoughtful listeners who are struggling? Is this the answer?
No! Enough is enough. The lie of conditional love must die or we cannot live. We can exist and cope -we can even appear to live -- but that lie must bite the dust so we can live. It's time that we Bible-believing Christians stop fearing being ostracized or unkindly labeled. It's time that, for the sake of our children, we understand and proclaim Christ as the thoroughly GOOD NEWS He is. Our children cannot live with true righteousness or hope unless they know Whose -- and who -- they ARE.
I'm a new man because I now can delight in all I know about my heavenly Father. I no longer "backfile" His judgments, I rejoice in them! I can hope in his judgments and even sing of His judgments --even His age-abiding judgments. I now know that My Heavenly Father is committed. Not just 'loving," but committed. What a difference that meditating on His utter goodness has made in my life! Ask Paula! My wife will tell you -- even my friends who have yet to see the fullness of God's love as we've seen it will. tell you. I'm a changed Charles. I know who I am. I love being a husband and a grandpa more than ever these days and so enjoy being alive. YES! And my identity is not "minister" (though I love the ministry!)
Paula and I so yearn that others experience the wholeness God has brought into our hearts and our home. It's been prophesied by individuals -- worldwide -- who knew nothing about us, that a dream in our hearts will happen. What is that dream?
For many years, Paula and I have envisioned teaming up with other ministries the Lord will join to us to bring healing to broken hearts. Especially for hearts that have endured harsh spiritual abuse. And all based on: "God loves you, but you must..." Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying I have no appreciation for the fact that the Lord wants us to learn to make good choices. Nor am I saying the Lord does not want each of us to feel uniquely special to Him And by no means am I saying we shouldn't encourage people in a wholesome fear of the Lord. Anyone who has lived for a few decades knows our Lord's judgments are real. Actions produce consequences! However, fear of rejection is the most common culprit that catapults people into destructive behavior.
We cannot have it both ways. We cannot teach unconditional love -- and at the same time -- tell shattered people that God's unfailing love is (somehow?) conditional. Whether it be conditioned on their "special election" or conditioned on their performance! Such non-sense is not the gospel. It's heartbreaking despair. Have you ever wondered why some Christians become atheists? Or commit suicide? Having read these pages you can see why, but those are the kind of people our hearts yearn after. We know the Lord's heart yearns after them even more. Are you drowning in the quagmire of spiritual despair? Take heart, my friend! Salvation is not a gamble, it is a Gift -- it's not of works, but of Christ -so no one can boast! Very soon the time is coming when the body of Christ will believe what it has sung about and proclaimed. The Lord is up to something -- magnificent!
Oops! I got up on my soapbox again, didn't I? Back to the vision... Paula and I yearn to be part of a team that listens to the Holy Spirit, and in His wisdom and power liberates spiritually and emotionally abused hearts so they will hope again. We envision a "Restoration Ranch." It will be out in the country (somewhere!) next to a large lake. (For years, perfect strangers have described this vision to us prophetically -- in detail! -having no natural knowledge of what the Lord had put in our hearts.) We envision serious chemical, sexual and emotional addictions being healed. Marriages healed! Christian leaders restored and made whole.
We also envision a "school of the Holy Spirit" on the same grounds. It will be "hands on, learn as you listen to God" training for Christians who yearn to learn to hear the Holy Spirit for the healing of wounded hearts. We KNOW this vision will happen. Interestingly enough, the Lord has now "maneuvered" us to live in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area where He long ago told us He would establish it! Awesome, huh? So very interesting things have been stirring -- Praise the Lord!
Salvation by faith in Christ alone, the holiness of God, the miraculous ministry of the Holy Spirit -- all of those wonderful realities have been "coming back" to the body of Christ over the last five hundred years.
What's next? Every fiber of my being sings that the Lord is about to reveal His true heart and plan for His creation to many, many people worldwide. It won't be long before the FULL "faith once delivered to the saints" will return to us all, accompanied by unprecedented signs and wonders. Hide and watch! And when God's firstborn family members know their identity -- watch out, world! Christ's healing light will shine on you.
The following is taken from Charles Slagle's devotional "From The Father's Heart"
REMEMBER Isa. 52:14; John 3:16
Child,
I AM just, pure and holy. My love is limitless and seeks not its own. When those dark thoughts cloud your mind, causing you to question My love, I ask that you do one thing: remember the cross.
See it now. See the One crucified, See the humiliation, the horror of Innocence disrobed, mutilated and bleeding. Pain racks His every atom. Each gasp of air is agony untold. His every nerve is a conduit of fire.
Can you hear Him cry? No one else can either, but I can. I hear it forever - how could I forget it? It's almost the sound of a boy - a stifled, intermittent cry it is...
No, child, don't turn away. Not yet, please. Do you see the thorns piercing His brow? The disfigurement of His face? The spikes splitting His hands and His feet? The jeering crowds at the foot of His cross? They didn't kill him. They would have if they could have -but they could not. He gave His life. He shielded His enemies who were worthy of death by dying Himself in their stead. He suffered murder to save His murderers. He suffered shame to save His mockers. And He would do it again. Again and again. And so would I. Is this not the destiny of Perfect Love in a fallen world?
This is the way love is, and this is the way I AM. Never forget it.
Entreatingly,
Father
.
THE REAL GOOD NEWS & WHY WE SHARE IT
.
These wonderful messages speak to why Joian and I share our God and our Christ, the Saviour of All Men. The first and longer testimony is by a good brother named Ted Jones. The rest are short messages in response to Ted's testimony. I pray you sense the relief and freedom from despair and anguish these testimonies convey and I hope you will consider Christ as Saviour of All.
Jack
MY TESTIMONY
The idea that God lets any creature suffer endlessly has caused me more suffering than all the other problems of my life combined. By the time I had reached the mission field I had hoped to have found a satisfactory answer that would justify God allowing this to happen. I didn't find such an answer. Surrounded by thousands of people, dozens of whom were dying every day and beginning an eternity of suffering in hell was too much for me. In 1966, at the age of 28, it caused me to have a nervous breakdown. For several weeks I was confined to my bed in a state of terror night and day. The terror was caused by the fear of what a God I could not love or respect would do to me after I died. It took me twelve years to fully recover from the breakdown. I quickly became agnostic, for the Christian gospel and the Bible were no longer any comfort to me at all. Many evangelical friends tried to help me. They meant well, but in the end they all had only words of condemnation towards me. This added more suffering to my already intense suffering.
Gradually I began to learn that there have been, in centuries past, and still are today, a few people in the world that see a different kind of God in the Bible. They see a God who will not let any creature suffer forever. They see a God in the Bible who will change every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings of Satan. I read dozens of books, and listened to hundreds of tapes by men who believe this way and I gradually became converted to believing this way myself. Since 1981, through my newspaper ads and my telephone ministry I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature explaining why I believe as I do. I have also sent this evidence to hundreds of pastors and Bible school teachers. None of them have told me that they are able to refute it. I have also read eight books that were supposed to refute the evidence in favor of universalism, but none of them do. Because of this evidence, my panic attacks became less frequent until twelve years after my breakdown they ceased altogether. Now, nothing gives me greater pleasure than to make this evidence available to others who have suffered because of the same problem that I had, and I use a substantial amount of my money and time to this end.
Because of the enormous amount of suffering the idea of "endless hell" causes in this world, I am asking you to consider the possibility that you should stop endorsing the idea that the Bible teaches it. Or, at least, let others know that there are (and have been in centuries past) people who do not think the Bible teaches it. Many of the responses from pastors and teachers range from a mild, "The majority don't agree with you so you must be wrong." to the vicious "For every week you leave your ad in the papers, God will increase the temperature of the fires of hell for you personally." Most are somewhere in between these remarks But none have told me they are able to refute the evidence. And, until they can, they will not be able to shut me up.
May God's blessing rest with your spirit!
Ted Jones
(Ted gave the links to a number of sites that share his message, I have not included them here as we have listed them already on our sidebar.)
These responces to Ted's testimony show the fruit of what Hell-fire teachings have done to people.
1. One of the most valuable aids to my own recovery from crippling depression is Universalist thought and God saving all His creatures.
2. I had the same torment as you as a teen because I'd heard about all those terrible after life things. The panic and fear was so bad I thought I would physically die. But, like you, God used the brokenness to open my heart. I saw a panoramic view of God's plan of the ages, the resurrection from this present darkness and death and saw the glory of God cover the entire earth like a rainbow.
I told my kids the truth when they were young so they wouldn't have that torment!
3. I also had breakdowns and was hospitalized because of the spiritual abuse I suffered at the hands of the cult in which I was raised. But - Praise God! All I went through was part of the bigger plan - and now, slowly I am beginning to see the light! I no longer believe in that eternal hell which tormented my mind for so long...It seemed like eternity while I was there - but now I'm free!
4. The idea of eternal torment bothered me terribly, too, for a long time. Worse are those people who look forward to sitting in the grandstands in heaven for eternity watching those in hell burn.
The book most helpful to me was Thomas Talbott's 'The Inescapable Love of God,' with which I'm sure you're familiar.
5. My story is very like yours, along with the journey into searching out what God REALLY had to say on the subject. I have never before. How wonderful that you are getting this message out to people. The idea of an angry God capable of mass eternal torture was the subject of childhood nightmares and a long adult search before I could truly believe that God was good, and not just big. Praise Him, that He IS good!
6. I too suffered much from the eternal torment teachings of men. I suffered severe depression and anxiety attacks. If God hadn't had his hand on and in my life I would have killed myself a long time ago. But, praise to His name, He led me to a website that explained the lake of fire, hell, judgment, justice, wrath and all the other words that institutional churches use to cram their hate filled God down our throats.
Now, I hear these men and they sound so immature and childish. They contradict themselves whenever they open their mouths. It is truly sad that the only way they can make a living is by threatening people with their twisted and demented idea of a "loving" God. Do they ever truly listen to what they say? Or do they care? Most of them I have talked to don't seem to care at all about their doctrines on eternal torment. Anyway, I can just be grateful that God got me out of that trash before I did myself in.
7. How wonderful to hear the Good News... if the new covenant is a better covenant (than the old) then it follows that eternal hell could not be a reality! I too have struggled with severe anxiety over my family going to hell if they don't "say the prayer"... many of them love Jesus but are what you call "new agers" so they don't believe the prayer is necessary. After 15 years of trying to change them, I believe God has shown me that He has saved New Agers and loves them dearly - as much as anyone who claims His name! I have found many websites about universal salvation and it rings true with the God I know as love.
8. I can certainly identify with some of the things that you have said. I know what it is like to come close to a nervous breakdown, because of the "Hell" (eternal torment) teaching.
The problem was greatly aggravated by the psychological, emotional, and spiritual abuse that I suffered in the "institutional church" (especially, the fundamentalist movement).
I have been studying UR since February 2004, and I'm grateful to God for the healing that it has brought to me.
9. I appreciate your testimonial. I've been on "this journey" for about a year now and everything to me has changed. I see everything differently: God, the scriptures (can't get enough of them now), the "lost", everything!
10. Had I discovered the truth of universal salvation sooner, I wouldn't have had to go through nearly two years of torment and anguish. I hope that those who need it most will find out about it too.
11. Your road of previous suffering encourages me for those I love who are suffering in any way right now, because they still have problems with a Father Who would forever punish any of us and refuse His Presence and Love to the same. Thank you again for your loving gift of your insights and life.
12. The belief in eternal torment may be partially to blame for a severe anxiety disorder I have suffered since age 17. I have seen testimonies of people that have gone nearly or completely insane due to this horrible teaching. Don't let it happen to you.
Explore the wonderful truths of the salvation of all mankind found in properly translated Bibles. Learn what Christ meant when He said on the Tree of Crucifixion, "It is finished." Discover the wonderful promises He left for you, your friends, relatives, and loved ones.
Seeing a God who lets people be tormented forever breeds contempt for our fellow man and turns a person into a hypocrite.
Seeing a God of Love without hypocrisy, breeds forgiveness and sincerity.
I've been there. It's your choice. Check out http://www.tentmaker.org and the materials available without price. It's not too late to love and be loved.
13 I know many people who have been through similar experiences as yours because of the false teaching of endless hell although they would not have been as intense as yours seems to have been
Also I have a friend here who believes the same as you and I am inclined to go along with what you believe.
14 Concordant Publishing Concern was a lifesaver for me about 5 years ago when I found one of their pages on the internet. http://www.concordant.org/
I wasn't having a nervous breakdown, but I was getting quite depressed and ready for something different than what I was seeing in Christianity or in my Bible.
15. I have seen people, happy productive people who knew a measure of peace, start going to endless-hell churches, join these churches, and within 6 months to a year, gain 50 or 60 pounds, can't sleep, chain smoking, on "nerve pills", families broke up, seeing a psychiatrist, and finally end up in the psych-ward or worst! And is it any wonder why??!
16 I was on Paxil for nearly 6 years then Wellbutrin for two years because of the doctrine of eternal suffering in hell, but now I'm off both because I know that God loves all unconditionally and will eventually save everyone, not just a few. It has cleared my head of being judgmental and fearful.
17. I have suffered from severe anger and depression because of the teachings of an "eternal" hell and suffering. I also found myself unable to truly love or respect a god that could send anyone to such a place. It has been said also that "we send ourselves to hell" but how can that be, if God is totally sovereign and in total control? Your website is a blessing. Thank you for spreading the True Good News. May you be blessed always.
18. I want to thank you for all the great sites. I only recently embraced Christian universalism so I am being completely re-wired. This is a joyful and painful all at the same time experience if you know what I mean?
19. I remember when I was a young man, camping out and sitting around the fire, I would look intently into the flames and glowing embers and ask my friends just how is it possible that people can go to a place like that for eternity. No one ever had an answer. My conscience was so stirred by the nightmarish scenes conjured up in my mind that I could not rest until I had a good answer.
Not until a friend, years later, handed me a Concordant Literal New Testament and some of the writings from THE CONCORDANT PUBLISHING CONCERN, were my fears put to rest. My conscience exulted at the wonderful truths! It could not side with the doctrine of demons called "eternal torment."
.
These wonderful messages speak to why Joian and I share our God and our Christ, the Saviour of All Men. The first and longer testimony is by a good brother named Ted Jones. The rest are short messages in response to Ted's testimony. I pray you sense the relief and freedom from despair and anguish these testimonies convey and I hope you will consider Christ as Saviour of All.
Jack
MY TESTIMONY
The idea that God lets any creature suffer endlessly has caused me more suffering than all the other problems of my life combined. By the time I had reached the mission field I had hoped to have found a satisfactory answer that would justify God allowing this to happen. I didn't find such an answer. Surrounded by thousands of people, dozens of whom were dying every day and beginning an eternity of suffering in hell was too much for me. In 1966, at the age of 28, it caused me to have a nervous breakdown. For several weeks I was confined to my bed in a state of terror night and day. The terror was caused by the fear of what a God I could not love or respect would do to me after I died. It took me twelve years to fully recover from the breakdown. I quickly became agnostic, for the Christian gospel and the Bible were no longer any comfort to me at all. Many evangelical friends tried to help me. They meant well, but in the end they all had only words of condemnation towards me. This added more suffering to my already intense suffering.
Gradually I began to learn that there have been, in centuries past, and still are today, a few people in the world that see a different kind of God in the Bible. They see a God who will not let any creature suffer forever. They see a God in the Bible who will change every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings of Satan. I read dozens of books, and listened to hundreds of tapes by men who believe this way and I gradually became converted to believing this way myself. Since 1981, through my newspaper ads and my telephone ministry I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature explaining why I believe as I do. I have also sent this evidence to hundreds of pastors and Bible school teachers. None of them have told me that they are able to refute it. I have also read eight books that were supposed to refute the evidence in favor of universalism, but none of them do. Because of this evidence, my panic attacks became less frequent until twelve years after my breakdown they ceased altogether. Now, nothing gives me greater pleasure than to make this evidence available to others who have suffered because of the same problem that I had, and I use a substantial amount of my money and time to this end.
Because of the enormous amount of suffering the idea of "endless hell" causes in this world, I am asking you to consider the possibility that you should stop endorsing the idea that the Bible teaches it. Or, at least, let others know that there are (and have been in centuries past) people who do not think the Bible teaches it. Many of the responses from pastors and teachers range from a mild, "The majority don't agree with you so you must be wrong." to the vicious "For every week you leave your ad in the papers, God will increase the temperature of the fires of hell for you personally." Most are somewhere in between these remarks But none have told me they are able to refute the evidence. And, until they can, they will not be able to shut me up.
May God's blessing rest with your spirit!
Ted Jones
(Ted gave the links to a number of sites that share his message, I have not included them here as we have listed them already on our sidebar.)
These responces to Ted's testimony show the fruit of what Hell-fire teachings have done to people.
1. One of the most valuable aids to my own recovery from crippling depression is Universalist thought and God saving all His creatures.
2. I had the same torment as you as a teen because I'd heard about all those terrible after life things. The panic and fear was so bad I thought I would physically die. But, like you, God used the brokenness to open my heart. I saw a panoramic view of God's plan of the ages, the resurrection from this present darkness and death and saw the glory of God cover the entire earth like a rainbow.
I told my kids the truth when they were young so they wouldn't have that torment!
3. I also had breakdowns and was hospitalized because of the spiritual abuse I suffered at the hands of the cult in which I was raised. But - Praise God! All I went through was part of the bigger plan - and now, slowly I am beginning to see the light! I no longer believe in that eternal hell which tormented my mind for so long...It seemed like eternity while I was there - but now I'm free!
4. The idea of eternal torment bothered me terribly, too, for a long time. Worse are those people who look forward to sitting in the grandstands in heaven for eternity watching those in hell burn.
The book most helpful to me was Thomas Talbott's 'The Inescapable Love of God,' with which I'm sure you're familiar.
5. My story is very like yours, along with the journey into searching out what God REALLY had to say on the subject. I have never before. How wonderful that you are getting this message out to people. The idea of an angry God capable of mass eternal torture was the subject of childhood nightmares and a long adult search before I could truly believe that God was good, and not just big. Praise Him, that He IS good!
6. I too suffered much from the eternal torment teachings of men. I suffered severe depression and anxiety attacks. If God hadn't had his hand on and in my life I would have killed myself a long time ago. But, praise to His name, He led me to a website that explained the lake of fire, hell, judgment, justice, wrath and all the other words that institutional churches use to cram their hate filled God down our throats.
Now, I hear these men and they sound so immature and childish. They contradict themselves whenever they open their mouths. It is truly sad that the only way they can make a living is by threatening people with their twisted and demented idea of a "loving" God. Do they ever truly listen to what they say? Or do they care? Most of them I have talked to don't seem to care at all about their doctrines on eternal torment. Anyway, I can just be grateful that God got me out of that trash before I did myself in.
7. How wonderful to hear the Good News... if the new covenant is a better covenant (than the old) then it follows that eternal hell could not be a reality! I too have struggled with severe anxiety over my family going to hell if they don't "say the prayer"... many of them love Jesus but are what you call "new agers" so they don't believe the prayer is necessary. After 15 years of trying to change them, I believe God has shown me that He has saved New Agers and loves them dearly - as much as anyone who claims His name! I have found many websites about universal salvation and it rings true with the God I know as love.
8. I can certainly identify with some of the things that you have said. I know what it is like to come close to a nervous breakdown, because of the "Hell" (eternal torment) teaching.
The problem was greatly aggravated by the psychological, emotional, and spiritual abuse that I suffered in the "institutional church" (especially, the fundamentalist movement).
I have been studying UR since February 2004, and I'm grateful to God for the healing that it has brought to me.
9. I appreciate your testimonial. I've been on "this journey" for about a year now and everything to me has changed. I see everything differently: God, the scriptures (can't get enough of them now), the "lost", everything!
10. Had I discovered the truth of universal salvation sooner, I wouldn't have had to go through nearly two years of torment and anguish. I hope that those who need it most will find out about it too.
11. Your road of previous suffering encourages me for those I love who are suffering in any way right now, because they still have problems with a Father Who would forever punish any of us and refuse His Presence and Love to the same. Thank you again for your loving gift of your insights and life.
12. The belief in eternal torment may be partially to blame for a severe anxiety disorder I have suffered since age 17. I have seen testimonies of people that have gone nearly or completely insane due to this horrible teaching. Don't let it happen to you.
Explore the wonderful truths of the salvation of all mankind found in properly translated Bibles. Learn what Christ meant when He said on the Tree of Crucifixion, "It is finished." Discover the wonderful promises He left for you, your friends, relatives, and loved ones.
Seeing a God who lets people be tormented forever breeds contempt for our fellow man and turns a person into a hypocrite.
Seeing a God of Love without hypocrisy, breeds forgiveness and sincerity.
I've been there. It's your choice. Check out http://www.tentmaker.org and the materials available without price. It's not too late to love and be loved.
13 I know many people who have been through similar experiences as yours because of the false teaching of endless hell although they would not have been as intense as yours seems to have been
Also I have a friend here who believes the same as you and I am inclined to go along with what you believe.
14 Concordant Publishing Concern was a lifesaver for me about 5 years ago when I found one of their pages on the internet. http://www.concordant.org/
I wasn't having a nervous breakdown, but I was getting quite depressed and ready for something different than what I was seeing in Christianity or in my Bible.
15. I have seen people, happy productive people who knew a measure of peace, start going to endless-hell churches, join these churches, and within 6 months to a year, gain 50 or 60 pounds, can't sleep, chain smoking, on "nerve pills", families broke up, seeing a psychiatrist, and finally end up in the psych-ward or worst! And is it any wonder why??!
16 I was on Paxil for nearly 6 years then Wellbutrin for two years because of the doctrine of eternal suffering in hell, but now I'm off both because I know that God loves all unconditionally and will eventually save everyone, not just a few. It has cleared my head of being judgmental and fearful.
17. I have suffered from severe anger and depression because of the teachings of an "eternal" hell and suffering. I also found myself unable to truly love or respect a god that could send anyone to such a place. It has been said also that "we send ourselves to hell" but how can that be, if God is totally sovereign and in total control? Your website is a blessing. Thank you for spreading the True Good News. May you be blessed always.
18. I want to thank you for all the great sites. I only recently embraced Christian universalism so I am being completely re-wired. This is a joyful and painful all at the same time experience if you know what I mean?
19. I remember when I was a young man, camping out and sitting around the fire, I would look intently into the flames and glowing embers and ask my friends just how is it possible that people can go to a place like that for eternity. No one ever had an answer. My conscience was so stirred by the nightmarish scenes conjured up in my mind that I could not rest until I had a good answer.
Not until a friend, years later, handed me a Concordant Literal New Testament and some of the writings from THE CONCORDANT PUBLISHING CONCERN, were my fears put to rest. My conscience exulted at the wonderful truths! It could not side with the doctrine of demons called "eternal torment."
.
AND THEY STILL BUY AND SELL HIM TODAY
.
God says: "Go and care for a flock that is intended for slaughter. The buyers will slaughter their sheep without remorse. The sellers will say, `Praise the Lord, I am now rich!' Even the shepherds have no compassion for them."
and later:
Those who bought and sold sheep were watching me, and they knew that the Lord was speaking to them through my actions. And I said to them, "If you like, give me my wages, whatever I am worth; but only if you want to."
So they counted out for my wages thirty pieces of silver.
And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potters this magnificent sum at which they valued me!"
So I took the thirty coins and threw them to the potters in the Temple of the Lord.
and ceturies later:
"How much will you pay me to betray Jesus to you?" And they gave him thirty pieces of silver.
When Judas, who had betrayed him, realized that Jesus had been condemned to die, he was filled with remorse. So he took the thirty pieces of silver back to the leading priests and other leaders. "I have sinned," he declared, "for I have betrayed an innocent man."
"What do we care?" they retorted. "That's your problem."
Then Judas threw the money onto the floor of the Temple and went out and hanged himself.
The leading priests picked up the money. "We can't put it in the Temple treasury," they said, "since it's against the law to accept money paid for murder."
After some discussion they finally decided to buy the potter's field, and they made it into a cemetery for foreigners. That is why the field is still called the Field of Blood.
makes you want to cry, doesn't it ......... "thirty pieces of silver- the price at which He was valued"
taken from NLT
Zech11:4 and 5:11-13
Mat 26:15 and 27:3-9
and they still buy and sell Him today
.
God says: "Go and care for a flock that is intended for slaughter. The buyers will slaughter their sheep without remorse. The sellers will say, `Praise the Lord, I am now rich!' Even the shepherds have no compassion for them."
and later:
Those who bought and sold sheep were watching me, and they knew that the Lord was speaking to them through my actions. And I said to them, "If you like, give me my wages, whatever I am worth; but only if you want to."
So they counted out for my wages thirty pieces of silver.
And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potters this magnificent sum at which they valued me!"
So I took the thirty coins and threw them to the potters in the Temple of the Lord.
and ceturies later:
"How much will you pay me to betray Jesus to you?" And they gave him thirty pieces of silver.
When Judas, who had betrayed him, realized that Jesus had been condemned to die, he was filled with remorse. So he took the thirty pieces of silver back to the leading priests and other leaders. "I have sinned," he declared, "for I have betrayed an innocent man."
"What do we care?" they retorted. "That's your problem."
Then Judas threw the money onto the floor of the Temple and went out and hanged himself.
The leading priests picked up the money. "We can't put it in the Temple treasury," they said, "since it's against the law to accept money paid for murder."
After some discussion they finally decided to buy the potter's field, and they made it into a cemetery for foreigners. That is why the field is still called the Field of Blood.
makes you want to cry, doesn't it ......... "thirty pieces of silver- the price at which He was valued"
taken from NLT
Zech11:4 and 5:11-13
Mat 26:15 and 27:3-9
and they still buy and sell Him today
.
SHE USED ME AND ABUSED ME
.
"SHE USED ME AND ABUSED ME"
The "she" I speak of is the "harlot system" many call the church today. And yes, she most
certainly used and abused me and for most in Christendom she is and also has been doing the very same thing for two millennial. I share today of the external counterpart of the "harlot spirit" that lays within the hearts of all believers. We are made up of two men(Adam and Christ) and kid not yourself, the "antichrist spirit and the harlot" dwells within the carnal nature of yours and my old man which is the progeny of Adam. But hey, thanks to the grace of God we know that we are new creatures being gloriously made into a new man, both individually and corporately, as we take on the very image of our Christ.
I spent ten years of my life serving and working for the false church and she used me and abused me like a rented mule and I actually liked it. You see, soon after meeting Christ I, like most, was captured by the counterfeit church with her corrupt five fold ministry preaching and teaching a form of servitude, where "conditions" are set that you might continue to receive God's love and not lose your salvation. Most denominations and preachers today, still teach and preach a "conditional salvation." But, glory to God! .......... also today the Voice of Freedom and the Spirit of Christ is saying to these ministers that stand pridefully above the people in their raised pulpits "LET MY PEOPLE AND MY BODY GO!"
I pray that as your read this excerpt below, God would give you ears to hear and eyes to see, so you might clearly recognize the false and conditional love that has come to replace that which is the real and unconditional Love of God through Christ, Jesus.
Lord bless you,
Jack
Conditional Salvation
There are countless denominations and movements that stem from John Wesley’s teachings. His ideas about Holiness and Sanctification have affected many tens of thousands of church leaders and their congregations. The Charismatic, Pentecostal, and Holiness movements all have their roots in Wesley’s teachings.
The Wesleyan strain of teaching owes its origin to an earlier theologian by the name of Jacob Arminius. The theological name used to describe this line of teaching is commonly called Arminianism. (By the way, I’m NOT writing as a Calvinist to expose Arminianism’s errors! Calvinism is also a perversion of the gospel.) In a nutshell, Arminianism advances the idea that people must “choose salvation” in this lifetime by accepting Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for their sins.
Moreover, this human will-centered ideology asserts that all mankind is guilty before God and the punishment for that guilt is endless torment in a fiery hell. However, after accepting the free gift of grace, one must begin to show signs that they have indeed received grace; one must begin to DO works that would indicate they have Christ within them. And one must begin to refrain from doing works that are considered sinful or evil according to how their denomination or church defines what is sin and what isn’t. What determines whether a person has crossed the line is probably as varied as the number of people who believe in conditional salvation.
Ultimately, each individual believer must make up their own minds what that line may be. It’s interesting that most Christians draw a different line for themselves than for others. The reader can be assured they have a hard time finding two pastors who will both draw that line in exactly the same place. That should tell you something about this system. (I have been to one church in my community where a small mustache on a man’s face would send them to Hell. This denomination has over 20,000 churches and almost 3 million adherents.)
According to this line of teaching, there are sins Christians can commit which would cause them to lose their salvation and “go to Hell.” Therefore one who has indeed been “born again” CAN lose their salvation and find themselves in a Hell of everlasting punishment. The message is clear: “Even as one ‘chose’ to get saved, they can also ‘choose’ to get unsaved.” So it is clear that the “eternal” life promised at the “altar call” by this “survival of the fittest” theology REALLY isn’t “eternal” after all! (Food for thought: Was Darwin’s survival of the fittest theory simply the logically produced fruit of the teaching of a corrupted church?)
Most pastors will not drill home week after week on Sunday mornings all the things that one must do or not do in order to maintain their salvation. No, this doctrine is usually used in a more subtle way. This doctrine most often comes out when a sheep begins to get out of line. Most human beings are incapable of sustaining a continuous bombardment of sermons that center on walking the straight line to avoid the fiery flames of Hell. They’ll go find another church or go insane. Once the teaching that one can lose their salvation is injected in a soul, it is not necessary to keep the message ever before them (although some do). After all, it only takes a little leaven -- a little doubt -- to leaven the whole lump -- that is, keep a person in fear. Once the fear is injected into the soul, it can then be sugar-coated with phrases like, “Oh, it’s very hard to lose your salvation. You really have to stray FAR before anything like that may happen. Remember, God loves you and has no desire to see you in Hell.” But phrases like that do NOT neutralize the poisonous seed that is already firmly planted in the hearts of souls. Once the seed is planted, its power to rob us of the power of the life of God is in effect. The sugar coated words about how hard it is to lose one’s salvation merely serve to prevent us from ejecting the seed. They are Satan’s subtlety at its best.
Under this system, because one is ever in a condition of never knowing honestly whether they are truly saved or not -- there is a strong impulse to do works that would “appear” righteous. These “works” become proof that God is indeed working in their lives and that they are on the road which prevents them from falling into Hell. The central core of life then, under this teaching, becomes saving oneself to the everlasting exclusion of billions of people who will perish in Hell for all eternity as “failures” who didn’t measure up. I know this may shock some readers, but this teaching is pretty much at the heart of modern Christianity and especially in Evangelicalism.
Getting Perfect Enough To Stay Saved
Because the teaching that there is the possibility of losing one’s salvation is a central tenet of modern Christianity, is it any wonder that there is a great interest in promoting and preserving “self” in the church? After all, the most important people to keep out of Hell are yourself and those closest to you, right?
One of the sad by-products of this teaching is that a person is never able to enter into the promised rest spoken of so clearly in the following scripture:
“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Mat.11:29-39, KJV)
It is a difficult labor for the SELF-righteous person to enter into God’s promised rest. A SELF-righteous person has filled themselves with countless dead works. It is a labor indeed carrying them about and counting them all the time to make sure they are enough. It is a hard thing to compare oneself to others to see if one is doing better than their neighbor in the good works/bad works department. One must really pay attention to “self.” And that’s really hard work. There’s little joy in that kind of work – there is no rest.
Taken from the paper "BE PERFECT?" by Gary Amirault (Gary is a brother I occasionally have had the opportunity to share my vision of Christ with. He is a tireless saint publishing the "Real Good News" and that being, "Jesus died that all men be saved.") This is the link to the outstanding paper from which the above excerpt was taken.
http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/perfect.htm
also for any that might not understand the concept and truth of the "antichrist and harlot spirits" that indwell you and me this (below) might possibly be one of the most anointed and beneficial writings you will ever read. It changed my life and a number of others I have shared it with.
"ANTICHRIST IN MAN" or
A DISCOVERY OF THE GREAT WHORE
THAT SITS UPON MANY WATERS
Wherein
Is declared what that whore or inward mystery is; together with the destruction thereof, by the powerful appearing of Christ in us.
By Joseph Salmon
http://www.gem-international.org/kingdomlife/antichristinman.htm
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matt 11:28-30
"SHE USED ME AND ABUSED ME"
The "she" I speak of is the "harlot system" many call the church today. And yes, she most
certainly used and abused me and for most in Christendom she is and also has been doing the very same thing for two millennial. I share today of the external counterpart of the "harlot spirit" that lays within the hearts of all believers. We are made up of two men(Adam and Christ) and kid not yourself, the "antichrist spirit and the harlot" dwells within the carnal nature of yours and my old man which is the progeny of Adam. But hey, thanks to the grace of God we know that we are new creatures being gloriously made into a new man, both individually and corporately, as we take on the very image of our Christ.
I spent ten years of my life serving and working for the false church and she used me and abused me like a rented mule and I actually liked it. You see, soon after meeting Christ I, like most, was captured by the counterfeit church with her corrupt five fold ministry preaching and teaching a form of servitude, where "conditions" are set that you might continue to receive God's love and not lose your salvation. Most denominations and preachers today, still teach and preach a "conditional salvation." But, glory to God! .......... also today the Voice of Freedom and the Spirit of Christ is saying to these ministers that stand pridefully above the people in their raised pulpits "LET MY PEOPLE AND MY BODY GO!"
I pray that as your read this excerpt below, God would give you ears to hear and eyes to see, so you might clearly recognize the false and conditional love that has come to replace that which is the real and unconditional Love of God through Christ, Jesus.
Lord bless you,
Jack
Conditional Salvation
There are countless denominations and movements that stem from John Wesley’s teachings. His ideas about Holiness and Sanctification have affected many tens of thousands of church leaders and their congregations. The Charismatic, Pentecostal, and Holiness movements all have their roots in Wesley’s teachings.
The Wesleyan strain of teaching owes its origin to an earlier theologian by the name of Jacob Arminius. The theological name used to describe this line of teaching is commonly called Arminianism. (By the way, I’m NOT writing as a Calvinist to expose Arminianism’s errors! Calvinism is also a perversion of the gospel.) In a nutshell, Arminianism advances the idea that people must “choose salvation” in this lifetime by accepting Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for their sins.
Moreover, this human will-centered ideology asserts that all mankind is guilty before God and the punishment for that guilt is endless torment in a fiery hell. However, after accepting the free gift of grace, one must begin to show signs that they have indeed received grace; one must begin to DO works that would indicate they have Christ within them. And one must begin to refrain from doing works that are considered sinful or evil according to how their denomination or church defines what is sin and what isn’t. What determines whether a person has crossed the line is probably as varied as the number of people who believe in conditional salvation.
Ultimately, each individual believer must make up their own minds what that line may be. It’s interesting that most Christians draw a different line for themselves than for others. The reader can be assured they have a hard time finding two pastors who will both draw that line in exactly the same place. That should tell you something about this system. (I have been to one church in my community where a small mustache on a man’s face would send them to Hell. This denomination has over 20,000 churches and almost 3 million adherents.)
According to this line of teaching, there are sins Christians can commit which would cause them to lose their salvation and “go to Hell.” Therefore one who has indeed been “born again” CAN lose their salvation and find themselves in a Hell of everlasting punishment. The message is clear: “Even as one ‘chose’ to get saved, they can also ‘choose’ to get unsaved.” So it is clear that the “eternal” life promised at the “altar call” by this “survival of the fittest” theology REALLY isn’t “eternal” after all! (Food for thought: Was Darwin’s survival of the fittest theory simply the logically produced fruit of the teaching of a corrupted church?)
Most pastors will not drill home week after week on Sunday mornings all the things that one must do or not do in order to maintain their salvation. No, this doctrine is usually used in a more subtle way. This doctrine most often comes out when a sheep begins to get out of line. Most human beings are incapable of sustaining a continuous bombardment of sermons that center on walking the straight line to avoid the fiery flames of Hell. They’ll go find another church or go insane. Once the teaching that one can lose their salvation is injected in a soul, it is not necessary to keep the message ever before them (although some do). After all, it only takes a little leaven -- a little doubt -- to leaven the whole lump -- that is, keep a person in fear. Once the fear is injected into the soul, it can then be sugar-coated with phrases like, “Oh, it’s very hard to lose your salvation. You really have to stray FAR before anything like that may happen. Remember, God loves you and has no desire to see you in Hell.” But phrases like that do NOT neutralize the poisonous seed that is already firmly planted in the hearts of souls. Once the seed is planted, its power to rob us of the power of the life of God is in effect. The sugar coated words about how hard it is to lose one’s salvation merely serve to prevent us from ejecting the seed. They are Satan’s subtlety at its best.
Under this system, because one is ever in a condition of never knowing honestly whether they are truly saved or not -- there is a strong impulse to do works that would “appear” righteous. These “works” become proof that God is indeed working in their lives and that they are on the road which prevents them from falling into Hell. The central core of life then, under this teaching, becomes saving oneself to the everlasting exclusion of billions of people who will perish in Hell for all eternity as “failures” who didn’t measure up. I know this may shock some readers, but this teaching is pretty much at the heart of modern Christianity and especially in Evangelicalism.
Getting Perfect Enough To Stay Saved
Because the teaching that there is the possibility of losing one’s salvation is a central tenet of modern Christianity, is it any wonder that there is a great interest in promoting and preserving “self” in the church? After all, the most important people to keep out of Hell are yourself and those closest to you, right?
One of the sad by-products of this teaching is that a person is never able to enter into the promised rest spoken of so clearly in the following scripture:
“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Mat.11:29-39, KJV)
It is a difficult labor for the SELF-righteous person to enter into God’s promised rest. A SELF-righteous person has filled themselves with countless dead works. It is a labor indeed carrying them about and counting them all the time to make sure they are enough. It is a hard thing to compare oneself to others to see if one is doing better than their neighbor in the good works/bad works department. One must really pay attention to “self.” And that’s really hard work. There’s little joy in that kind of work – there is no rest.
Taken from the paper "BE PERFECT?" by Gary Amirault (Gary is a brother I occasionally have had the opportunity to share my vision of Christ with. He is a tireless saint publishing the "Real Good News" and that being, "Jesus died that all men be saved.") This is the link to the outstanding paper from which the above excerpt was taken.
http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/perfect.htm
also for any that might not understand the concept and truth of the "antichrist and harlot spirits" that indwell you and me this (below) might possibly be one of the most anointed and beneficial writings you will ever read. It changed my life and a number of others I have shared it with.
"ANTICHRIST IN MAN" or
A DISCOVERY OF THE GREAT WHORE
THAT SITS UPON MANY WATERS
Wherein
Is declared what that whore or inward mystery is; together with the destruction thereof, by the powerful appearing of Christ in us.
By Joseph Salmon
http://www.gem-international.org/kingdomlife/antichristinman.htm
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matt 11:28-30
.
.
ME AND MINE AND THAT'S FINE
.
(This is taken from a discussion I am involved in at the moment. It speaks to the exclusivity born of the selfish carnal mind that has corrupted most of Christendom. May God replace our exclusive selfish natures with His all inclusive love and mercy through Christ Jesus)
I just thought to comment on the "Calvinism" and "Arminianism" doctrines which incessantly comes up with every "free will/sovereignty discussion. Both in one way or the other espouse a "limited atonement" and thus I believe are born of the religious selfish carnal mind. Man by his fallen nature is always exclusive in his self protective thinking and actions thus the "me and mine and that's fine" mindset carries darkness through out the world including religion.
Unless we can see by the Holy Spirit that Christ's sacrifice is inclusive of all mankind and all men will be awakened to the Love of God each in his own order we get off on the wrong foot right away with almost any doctrine. God is Agape and all His ways and methods are bound by His loving nature. Oh, how my soul recoils at the idea that my Father would torment the majority of my brothers and sister and His offspring forever and ever. Our God is Love and not a terrorist.
Religious man by his carnal nature and doctrines of exclusivity wants his sin forgiven but not the sin of others. Why can we not see that Christ's gift of righteousness and life was as inclusive as was Adam's offense that delivered sin and death to all mankind. Why do we discount Christ and His Cross? Who's sin is not included in these scriptures below?
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Jn 1:29
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Rom 5:17,18
Father awaken us to your great love and the grandeur of your gift of abundant life through your son, Christ Jesus,
Jack
(This is taken from a discussion I am involved in at the moment. It speaks to the exclusivity born of the selfish carnal mind that has corrupted most of Christendom. May God replace our exclusive selfish natures with His all inclusive love and mercy through Christ Jesus)
I just thought to comment on the "Calvinism" and "Arminianism" doctrines which incessantly comes up with every "free will/sovereignty discussion. Both in one way or the other espouse a "limited atonement" and thus I believe are born of the religious selfish carnal mind. Man by his fallen nature is always exclusive in his self protective thinking and actions thus the "me and mine and that's fine" mindset carries darkness through out the world including religion.
Unless we can see by the Holy Spirit that Christ's sacrifice is inclusive of all mankind and all men will be awakened to the Love of God each in his own order we get off on the wrong foot right away with almost any doctrine. God is Agape and all His ways and methods are bound by His loving nature. Oh, how my soul recoils at the idea that my Father would torment the majority of my brothers and sister and His offspring forever and ever. Our God is Love and not a terrorist.
Religious man by his carnal nature and doctrines of exclusivity wants his sin forgiven but not the sin of others. Why can we not see that Christ's gift of righteousness and life was as inclusive as was Adam's offense that delivered sin and death to all mankind. Why do we discount Christ and His Cross? Who's sin is not included in these scriptures below?
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Jn 1:29
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Rom 5:17,18
Father awaken us to your great love and the grandeur of your gift of abundant life through your son, Christ Jesus,
Jack
.
"Heliopher"
.
Can you see Jesus, with the heart of the Father, in this old Russian tale?
Can you picture Jesus' younger brothers, with the heart of Christ, in this legend?
Have you a heart that burns with Love?
"Heliopher"
Once upon a time there was a race which was lost in a great, dark forest. The trees stood so close together that the light of the sun could not penetrate the thickly entwined branches. There were also numerous wild animals which fell upon the people, especially the children, when they wandered too far from their parents while they were playing. So everyone lived in a constant state of fear of death and destruction, and a hopeless despair took hold of the hearts of the folk.
Continuous black darkness had strangled all the light in their hearts. They could not love one another any more. They even hated and murdered one another in their rage. Yet they were forced to remain together, for it was impossible for any single man to defend himself against the attacks of the wild beasts. They had lost all hope of ever finding their way out of the forest. Many of the young people did not believe in the light they had never seen, and they mocked their elders, when, with a last weak light gleaming in their dim eyes, they recounted tales of the festive, sunny days of their youth.
Among the people however, there was a young man called Heliopher. He was very much alone, grieving over the misery of his people, and seeking a way of salvation. He bore in his heart an endless longing for light and love in the desolation which surrounded him. Heliopher left his people to seek the sun. For many months and years he wandered through the dangers of the forest and of his own soul, and often, very often, nearly lost all hope and confidence. But Heliopher bravely withstood his enemies, whether within himself or around him, and at last he reached the edge of the forest and saw the light of the sun. In terrible amazement he fell into a swoon, and when he awoke he saw in the twilight that he was watched over in his slumber by beautiful people. In the green meadows stood the simple huts of the sun-people, and Heliopher lived with them in peace and endless joy as the most beloved amongst living men.
Then Heliopher went back to the forest to seek his people. “Come, brothers and sisters,” he said to them, “I will lead you to the light.” At this there was murmuring and frowning, wavering and hesitation, wonder and questioning, incredulous laughter, and finally a jubilant “Yes!” And then, at last, the longed-for departure.
Then the light of the sun shone in Heliopher’s eyes, but the way was long and difficult, and demanded much suffering and sacrifice, and murmuring arose among the people. Some spoke and said, “Let us murder him, the betrayer of the people!” And the dark glow of hatred was in their eyes. Others were wiser and said, “No! let us judge him in the presence of all, for it is dangerous to give the people a martyr.” And Heliopher spoke to his people, and talked about light and love. But the wise ones answered, “You lie! There is no light, there is no sun, there is no love. Let us be darker than the forest and more cruel than the wild beasts. Then we shall be masters of the forest!”
Heliopher answered in great pain, “O believe not, ye wise men, that ye can be victorious over darkness by being more dark, that ye can overcome the wild beasts by being more beastly. Only love is stronger. Only the light of the sun can drive away darkness.”
“Be silent!” said the wise men. “There is no light, there is no sun!”
And the people shouted, flinging their arms about in raging despair, “There is no light, there is no sun!”
But Heliopher called out, “Follow me!” Then, with his nails, he tore open his breast, and his heart burned with love, and it glowed and shed its beams through the dark forest. He took it in both hands, held it high over his head, and strode forth in front of the people.
In reverent wonder and silence the multitude followed the burning heart.
As they came out of the forest, the people ran in jubilation towards the sun, dancing in its loving rays, and loving one another. But Heliopher knelt down at the edge of the forest, and with the last strength of his outstretched arms he held up his loving, pulsing heart to the light of heaven, and gave his last smile to his people.
(based on a Russian legend)
.
Can you see Jesus, with the heart of the Father, in this old Russian tale?
Can you picture Jesus' younger brothers, with the heart of Christ, in this legend?
Have you a heart that burns with Love?
"Heliopher"
Once upon a time there was a race which was lost in a great, dark forest. The trees stood so close together that the light of the sun could not penetrate the thickly entwined branches. There were also numerous wild animals which fell upon the people, especially the children, when they wandered too far from their parents while they were playing. So everyone lived in a constant state of fear of death and destruction, and a hopeless despair took hold of the hearts of the folk.
Continuous black darkness had strangled all the light in their hearts. They could not love one another any more. They even hated and murdered one another in their rage. Yet they were forced to remain together, for it was impossible for any single man to defend himself against the attacks of the wild beasts. They had lost all hope of ever finding their way out of the forest. Many of the young people did not believe in the light they had never seen, and they mocked their elders, when, with a last weak light gleaming in their dim eyes, they recounted tales of the festive, sunny days of their youth.
Among the people however, there was a young man called Heliopher. He was very much alone, grieving over the misery of his people, and seeking a way of salvation. He bore in his heart an endless longing for light and love in the desolation which surrounded him. Heliopher left his people to seek the sun. For many months and years he wandered through the dangers of the forest and of his own soul, and often, very often, nearly lost all hope and confidence. But Heliopher bravely withstood his enemies, whether within himself or around him, and at last he reached the edge of the forest and saw the light of the sun. In terrible amazement he fell into a swoon, and when he awoke he saw in the twilight that he was watched over in his slumber by beautiful people. In the green meadows stood the simple huts of the sun-people, and Heliopher lived with them in peace and endless joy as the most beloved amongst living men.
Then Heliopher went back to the forest to seek his people. “Come, brothers and sisters,” he said to them, “I will lead you to the light.” At this there was murmuring and frowning, wavering and hesitation, wonder and questioning, incredulous laughter, and finally a jubilant “Yes!” And then, at last, the longed-for departure.
Then the light of the sun shone in Heliopher’s eyes, but the way was long and difficult, and demanded much suffering and sacrifice, and murmuring arose among the people. Some spoke and said, “Let us murder him, the betrayer of the people!” And the dark glow of hatred was in their eyes. Others were wiser and said, “No! let us judge him in the presence of all, for it is dangerous to give the people a martyr.” And Heliopher spoke to his people, and talked about light and love. But the wise ones answered, “You lie! There is no light, there is no sun, there is no love. Let us be darker than the forest and more cruel than the wild beasts. Then we shall be masters of the forest!”
Heliopher answered in great pain, “O believe not, ye wise men, that ye can be victorious over darkness by being more dark, that ye can overcome the wild beasts by being more beastly. Only love is stronger. Only the light of the sun can drive away darkness.”
“Be silent!” said the wise men. “There is no light, there is no sun!”
And the people shouted, flinging their arms about in raging despair, “There is no light, there is no sun!”
But Heliopher called out, “Follow me!” Then, with his nails, he tore open his breast, and his heart burned with love, and it glowed and shed its beams through the dark forest. He took it in both hands, held it high over his head, and strode forth in front of the people.
In reverent wonder and silence the multitude followed the burning heart.
As they came out of the forest, the people ran in jubilation towards the sun, dancing in its loving rays, and loving one another. But Heliopher knelt down at the edge of the forest, and with the last strength of his outstretched arms he held up his loving, pulsing heart to the light of heaven, and gave his last smile to his people.
(based on a Russian legend)
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TAX REVOLT ! ! !
.
( the following message has nothing to do with the Internal Revenue Service but everything to do with freeing Christ's bride from the "church tax." I believe this writing will bless you and hopefully set some of you free from the bondage of another of man's traditions that has crept into the church unawares)
The Bible is so very deep consisting of many levels of understanding. God also veils Himself and unveils Himself in the written word and I believe as we enter the dawning "Sabbath Age"((the 7th millennium and the 7th day) "One day is with the Lord as a thousand years." 2Pe 3:8) He is revealing depths of Himself never before realized.
All about us we are witnessing God tearing away the traditions of men that have bound His church and bride for almost two thousand years. Those whom have been given ears to hear and eyes to see are finding within the Word the precious hidden treasures of the Kingdom. One jewel of a revelation is that Jesus is coming with and in His saints; a first fruits and tithe company of sons, and just as it was two thousand years ago there will be a religious system set in place that has been perverted by man and vacated by God's presence to persecute Christ anew. The persecutors will be and are today blinded and unable to see Christ coming in His saints. Now who could have devised such a marvelous veiling of Himself and His appearing. The orthodox tradition laden church looks to the skies for Jesus return not knowing that He is appearing even today with and in His saints. Oh, the marvel of His ways as He veils and unveils His Glory.
Please allow the previous two paragraphs to serve as a loose introductory to another long held tradition of man that I wish to touch on today and even enlarge a bit. I speak of the "tithe" and the enlargement being the other OT/Levitical offerings. More and more are beginning to be awakened to the truth, that Jesus paid the tithe in full at Calvary. Many of us have also been made witness to how carnal religious men have profanely substituted money for Christ, as they build their brick and mortar towers to heaven(Gen 11:4). The false priesthood that stand in many of the pulpits today have discounted God's perfect gift in Christ and money now stands shamefully in His stead. This my friend is part of Mystery Babylon spoken of in Revelation and this is also a portion of the promised delusion that has overtaken many in this day. Now it is time to rid Christendom of the "church tax" and free the bride.
The woman and author of this article excerpt below is an acquaintance of Joian and myself and right now she is possibly about to be kicked out of her church for sharing such truth as this quoted below. Oh yes, these words of truth will indeed get you tossed from most congregations today because it is money that keeps the system going and not Christ. The "church tax" is the life blood of the Harlot and you cannot disparage the traditional practice of the tithe and remain. Please contemplate our friends words:
The tithe by definition is holy and separated to the Lord. Jesus WAS the Tithe, wholly separated to the purposes of God the Father. He came from the Father and returned to the Father, thus fulfilling the accounts ledger for all mankind. The tithe has been paid by Christ Himself in His own blood. Our page is up to date in the ledger. Just as He settled all outstanding accounts regarding sin, so too He settled the outstanding debt any had concerning tithes owed. It really is finished, all of it!
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.
The handwriting against us saying that we have robbed God in tithes is blotted out. It is not necessary for us to return a set portion of our income to God. The temple system and the Levitical priesthood have been abolished. We are His temple, a Melchizedek priesthood. Jesus as the Tithe made flesh was the first-born of many brethren, the first-born of a Tithe company, who would be holy and set-apart for God’s purposes, born of God and returning to Him. (Beadsworth)
....
I ask you, "brothers and sisters, are you God's tithe or are you still bound by the corrupted church system that entices you to fulfil the law which in effect makes Christ's sacrifice of no effect?"
Now if you would allow me, I desire to take this calling to be "God's tithe offering" a step further and show how we, by the Spirit of Christ in us, are all the offerings typed in the Old Testament. What was once external has now become internal as the Kingdom of God dwells within. (Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luk 17:21)
Yes, the sacrificial system still continues in different form and is working within the lives of God's sons. We are God's sacrifices and offerings for the church and a dieing world and we are called to present our bodies, a living sacrifice.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
We are called to give sacrifice by dieing and we die daily.
1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
The only way to have Christ' Spirit living within us is to be crucified with Christ.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me
We are called to suffer for the church and in this we fill up the afflictions of Christ.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church
We are God's continuing offering and even the sin offering. We are as He is.
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Lord help us to see just how fully we are to be identified with You. Help us to fulfil our calling until You be all, in all that we are and do.
Jack
The Beadsworth article from which the exceprt was quoted above can be found at this link. It is a wonderfully anointed writing.
http://www.freshoilreleases.com/Pages/prophetic_articles/letwholetithecomein.htm
This is a also a very good paper with many scriptures demonstrating the state of the tithe. A copy of it would fit nicely in most Sunday service collection baskets and I am sure the pastor would thank you. LOL
Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant
[A Scriptural Exposition on the Fraudulent Fleecing of the Flock]
http://bible-truths.com/tithing.html
Note: We are to be free from the law and led by the Spirit in our giving. Two months ago I believe I gave to some ministers of the Gospel (those w/o a title before their name and people like you and me) about ten percent of my income. This month I probably shared more than a third with some in need along with those that have blessed me and others, with their message of Love. I give this account only as an example and a notice that although we are free from tithing our giving continues. We are a giving people led by His Spirit to bless others.
.
( the following message has nothing to do with the Internal Revenue Service but everything to do with freeing Christ's bride from the "church tax." I believe this writing will bless you and hopefully set some of you free from the bondage of another of man's traditions that has crept into the church unawares)
The Bible is so very deep consisting of many levels of understanding. God also veils Himself and unveils Himself in the written word and I believe as we enter the dawning "Sabbath Age"((the 7th millennium and the 7th day) "One day is with the Lord as a thousand years." 2Pe 3:8) He is revealing depths of Himself never before realized.
All about us we are witnessing God tearing away the traditions of men that have bound His church and bride for almost two thousand years. Those whom have been given ears to hear and eyes to see are finding within the Word the precious hidden treasures of the Kingdom. One jewel of a revelation is that Jesus is coming with and in His saints; a first fruits and tithe company of sons, and just as it was two thousand years ago there will be a religious system set in place that has been perverted by man and vacated by God's presence to persecute Christ anew. The persecutors will be and are today blinded and unable to see Christ coming in His saints. Now who could have devised such a marvelous veiling of Himself and His appearing. The orthodox tradition laden church looks to the skies for Jesus return not knowing that He is appearing even today with and in His saints. Oh, the marvel of His ways as He veils and unveils His Glory.
Please allow the previous two paragraphs to serve as a loose introductory to another long held tradition of man that I wish to touch on today and even enlarge a bit. I speak of the "tithe" and the enlargement being the other OT/Levitical offerings. More and more are beginning to be awakened to the truth, that Jesus paid the tithe in full at Calvary. Many of us have also been made witness to how carnal religious men have profanely substituted money for Christ, as they build their brick and mortar towers to heaven(Gen 11:4). The false priesthood that stand in many of the pulpits today have discounted God's perfect gift in Christ and money now stands shamefully in His stead. This my friend is part of Mystery Babylon spoken of in Revelation and this is also a portion of the promised delusion that has overtaken many in this day. Now it is time to rid Christendom of the "church tax" and free the bride.
The woman and author of this article excerpt below is an acquaintance of Joian and myself and right now she is possibly about to be kicked out of her church for sharing such truth as this quoted below. Oh yes, these words of truth will indeed get you tossed from most congregations today because it is money that keeps the system going and not Christ. The "church tax" is the life blood of the Harlot and you cannot disparage the traditional practice of the tithe and remain. Please contemplate our friends words:
The tithe by definition is holy and separated to the Lord. Jesus WAS the Tithe, wholly separated to the purposes of God the Father. He came from the Father and returned to the Father, thus fulfilling the accounts ledger for all mankind. The tithe has been paid by Christ Himself in His own blood. Our page is up to date in the ledger. Just as He settled all outstanding accounts regarding sin, so too He settled the outstanding debt any had concerning tithes owed. It really is finished, all of it!
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.
The handwriting against us saying that we have robbed God in tithes is blotted out. It is not necessary for us to return a set portion of our income to God. The temple system and the Levitical priesthood have been abolished. We are His temple, a Melchizedek priesthood. Jesus as the Tithe made flesh was the first-born of many brethren, the first-born of a Tithe company, who would be holy and set-apart for God’s purposes, born of God and returning to Him. (Beadsworth)
....
I ask you, "brothers and sisters, are you God's tithe or are you still bound by the corrupted church system that entices you to fulfil the law which in effect makes Christ's sacrifice of no effect?"
Now if you would allow me, I desire to take this calling to be "God's tithe offering" a step further and show how we, by the Spirit of Christ in us, are all the offerings typed in the Old Testament. What was once external has now become internal as the Kingdom of God dwells within. (Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luk 17:21)
Yes, the sacrificial system still continues in different form and is working within the lives of God's sons. We are God's sacrifices and offerings for the church and a dieing world and we are called to present our bodies, a living sacrifice.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
We are called to give sacrifice by dieing and we die daily.
1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
The only way to have Christ' Spirit living within us is to be crucified with Christ.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me
We are called to suffer for the church and in this we fill up the afflictions of Christ.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church
We are God's continuing offering and even the sin offering. We are as He is.
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Lord help us to see just how fully we are to be identified with You. Help us to fulfil our calling until You be all, in all that we are and do.
Jack
The Beadsworth article from which the exceprt was quoted above can be found at this link. It is a wonderfully anointed writing.
http://www.freshoilreleases.com/Pages/prophetic_articles/letwholetithecomein.htm
This is a also a very good paper with many scriptures demonstrating the state of the tithe. A copy of it would fit nicely in most Sunday service collection baskets and I am sure the pastor would thank you. LOL
Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant
[A Scriptural Exposition on the Fraudulent Fleecing of the Flock]
http://bible-truths.com/tithing.html
A site with a number of articles, by different authors, on the tithe for those that need more supporting evidence.
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=9924157&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=tithe
Note: We are to be free from the law and led by the Spirit in our giving. Two months ago I believe I gave to some ministers of the Gospel (those w/o a title before their name and people like you and me) about ten percent of my income. This month I probably shared more than a third with some in need along with those that have blessed me and others, with their message of Love. I give this account only as an example and a notice that although we are free from tithing our giving continues. We are a giving people led by His Spirit to bless others.
.
THE HOUR COMETH AND NOW IS ~ "The Dispersion of His Sons" (part 3)
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But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:23,24
I felt led tonight to add to the sub-series "The Dispersion of His Sons." In the first part we defined "dispersion" as spreading widely, scattering, breaking up and scattering; also the process of distributing over a wide expanse of space.
I will confide in you that it has been a horrendous last two days for me as I have been further broken that I might know more perfectly and share in the cost my Jesus paid as the Father's redemptive offering and sacrifice for all of creation. I have hardly been able to spend more than a couple hours at a time away from a posture of prayer and worship, so encompassing has this painful internal breaking work been. Yes, part of the dispersion of God's son's is the "breaking up" and as we are broken the fragrance of Christ is dispersed through out creation. Our breaking and dispersion is progressive until Christ be All in ALL.
How far away am I from the "soft gospel" I used to hear and even share myself. Oh my, "give your life to Jesus and everything will be "good." Yes, there is the "good" of "good and evil" but that is not the real truth, as there is only "One GOOD"
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Luk 18:19
and our walk is not about doing or being "good" but being swallowed up by "GOOD." Our best "good" is no better than evil when compared to the "GOOD" of God and the essence of Christ. If God has marked you as a son in this age you will become the "GOODness" of God manifest in this temporal and fallen world. Jesus is the "Pattern Son" by which all others sons will live. The first century saints and a remnant from each succeeding century have been called, chosen and faithful to follow in the footsteps of Jesus even to the laying down of their lives. There is the multitude and then there are the few that Christ has called and they have no other place to go except where Christ leads.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. Jhn 6:65-68
If you are of that "little flock" ....... "one to a city and two to a family" that have found yourself as me with no place to go except into the fullness of Christ and the Father's bosom this message is for you. The truth is becoming apparent in these last days that God didn't plan to save the world in the last age but to take out a remnant for His name that they might, in this dawning new age, manifest the fullness of the stature of God's Son and His saving grace before the whole world. All creation stands on tip toe and groans for such and we ourselves groan for "the redemption of our body."
Please allow me to share the anointed words of J Preston Eby that you might understand the purpose of the passing "church age." This "purpose" has been hidden from the multitudes and thus the "soft peddling of the gospel" and the impotence of the organized church systems of today.
Purpose of the Age
The apostle James made a statement to the council at Jerusalem in which he clearly defines the complete outline of God’s purpose for the so-called age of grace in which we live and the dispensation that is to follow. "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for His name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, AFTER THIS (after God has taken out of the nations a people for His name) I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David (the fullness of God’s glory in a people), which is fallen down (following the great apostasy); and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: that the RESIDUE OF MEN MIGHT SEEK AFTER THE LORD, and ALL THE GENTILES, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 15:14-18). Dispensationally, this is one of the most significant passages in the New Testament. It gives God’s divine purpose for this age and the next age. James says that the purpose of God during this present age has been to visit the Gentiles TO TAKE O-U-T O-F T-H-E-M A PEOPLE FOR HIS NAME. God’s purpose for this age has never been the conversion of the whole world. God has not been trying to save the whole world. God has had no plan for "sweeping nations into the Kingdom of God." That never was God’s plan for this dispensation. God’s purpose, then, in this Church age, is to "call out" a people for His name. Out from among the billions of earth God is choosing an ELECT COMPANY to bear His name — His nature and His authority. God has been forming His Church, the body of Christ. The Church is the "ecclesia" — the "called out ones." That is the meaning of the word "church." Precisely this has been in progress since Pentecost. The gospel has never, anywhere, converted all, but everywhere has called out some. It is here, in the true Church, which is His body, that Jesus Christ FIRST ESTABLISHES HIS GOVERNMENT that He might rule and reign on the throne of men’s lives.
God’s plan is to first set up His government in the hearts of His elect and then as they become totally committed unto Him to imbue them with His own mind, spirit, thoughts, will, nature and power until they have grown up into the measure of the fullness of the stature of Christ. But most Christians will not come to this! They are too busy playing church, rejoicing that they are not going to hell or that they are going to heaven when they die, and blundering around in the carnal programs and immaturity and shame of a wretched, fleshly, Babylonian religious system which falsely calls itself "the church." But just as the dispensation of the law, at its conclusion, brought forth that which it typified and pointed to — Jesus Christ the Son of God — so this present Church age must, in these last days, at its conclusion, bring forth that for which it was intended and to which it pointed — a many-membered BODY OF CHRIST, perfected, matured, overcoming, and full grown into the exact likeness and full glory of its Head and Lord.
The true Church is the ecclesia, the "called out" ones. They are called out by the Holy Spirit of God and they are called out unto God. Their ears know His voice and not the clamoring voices of strangers. Well they know by the Spirit that the Babel of voices which clamor to be heard from the pulpit and radio and television are too often the voices of strangers posing as the ministers of Christ who seek to draw away disciples after themselves, and not to point men to the Christ of God upon whose shoulder is the government of the world.
God has had no plan to save the world during the Church age, only to call out a people unto Himself. If God had purposed to save the world during the past two thousand years He most certainly would have done so, for HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY. God’s Kingdom program for the next age, as His Kingdom progresses from age to age in that glorious increase of which there is no end, is the subjugation and salvation of all the living nations on earth. The promise is sure. Hear what the Lord is about to do through His Anointed Christ Body in this, our day! "He that overcometh...to him will I give POWER OVER THE NATIONS: and he shall RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON" (Rev. 2:26-27). "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST, and HE SHALL REIGN TO THE AGES OF THE AGES" (Rev. 11:15). "And all the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and ALL THE KINDREDS OF THE NATIONS shall worship before Thee" (Ps. 22:27). "For the Lord most high is terrible; He is a great King over all the earth. He shall subdue the people under us, and THE NATIONS UNDER OUR FEET" (Ps. 47:2-3). "Yea, ALL KINGS shall fall down before Him: ALL NATIONS shall serve Him" (Ps. 72:11).
It is an extraordinary and awesome thing that the Lord by revelation of the Spirit gives His sons to understand that what He is doing on the earth today is merely a beginning. Nothing is finished yet. We are not even approaching the end of the world, or the consummation of the ages, or the great "wind up" of God’s program. (Eby)
I have so much more on my heart tonight but I will try to share more later this week. Let me close by quoting this incredible chapter from Romans. This is the second time I have quoted these incredible promises in as many months. I pray you sense in your spirit how close we are!
Romans 8
Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If there is anything I have experienced in the last two days of prayer it is the almost unbearable discomfort of the flesh and the world I reside in. And if I have heard anything from my Lord it is "Christ in His fullness and your resurrection cometh soon." This is my hope and this is the hope of all "groaning creation."
My dear brothers and sisters, have you felt it ........ have you heard from Him ............ do you groan?
Jack
.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:23,24
I felt led tonight to add to the sub-series "The Dispersion of His Sons." In the first part we defined "dispersion" as spreading widely, scattering, breaking up and scattering; also the process of distributing over a wide expanse of space.
I will confide in you that it has been a horrendous last two days for me as I have been further broken that I might know more perfectly and share in the cost my Jesus paid as the Father's redemptive offering and sacrifice for all of creation. I have hardly been able to spend more than a couple hours at a time away from a posture of prayer and worship, so encompassing has this painful internal breaking work been. Yes, part of the dispersion of God's son's is the "breaking up" and as we are broken the fragrance of Christ is dispersed through out creation. Our breaking and dispersion is progressive until Christ be All in ALL.
How far away am I from the "soft gospel" I used to hear and even share myself. Oh my, "give your life to Jesus and everything will be "good." Yes, there is the "good" of "good and evil" but that is not the real truth, as there is only "One GOOD"
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Luk 18:19
and our walk is not about doing or being "good" but being swallowed up by "GOOD." Our best "good" is no better than evil when compared to the "GOOD" of God and the essence of Christ. If God has marked you as a son in this age you will become the "GOODness" of God manifest in this temporal and fallen world. Jesus is the "Pattern Son" by which all others sons will live. The first century saints and a remnant from each succeeding century have been called, chosen and faithful to follow in the footsteps of Jesus even to the laying down of their lives. There is the multitude and then there are the few that Christ has called and they have no other place to go except where Christ leads.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. Jhn 6:65-68
If you are of that "little flock" ....... "one to a city and two to a family" that have found yourself as me with no place to go except into the fullness of Christ and the Father's bosom this message is for you. The truth is becoming apparent in these last days that God didn't plan to save the world in the last age but to take out a remnant for His name that they might, in this dawning new age, manifest the fullness of the stature of God's Son and His saving grace before the whole world. All creation stands on tip toe and groans for such and we ourselves groan for "the redemption of our body."
Please allow me to share the anointed words of J Preston Eby that you might understand the purpose of the passing "church age." This "purpose" has been hidden from the multitudes and thus the "soft peddling of the gospel" and the impotence of the organized church systems of today.
Purpose of the Age
The apostle James made a statement to the council at Jerusalem in which he clearly defines the complete outline of God’s purpose for the so-called age of grace in which we live and the dispensation that is to follow. "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for His name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, AFTER THIS (after God has taken out of the nations a people for His name) I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David (the fullness of God’s glory in a people), which is fallen down (following the great apostasy); and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: that the RESIDUE OF MEN MIGHT SEEK AFTER THE LORD, and ALL THE GENTILES, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 15:14-18). Dispensationally, this is one of the most significant passages in the New Testament. It gives God’s divine purpose for this age and the next age. James says that the purpose of God during this present age has been to visit the Gentiles TO TAKE O-U-T O-F T-H-E-M A PEOPLE FOR HIS NAME. God’s purpose for this age has never been the conversion of the whole world. God has not been trying to save the whole world. God has had no plan for "sweeping nations into the Kingdom of God." That never was God’s plan for this dispensation. God’s purpose, then, in this Church age, is to "call out" a people for His name. Out from among the billions of earth God is choosing an ELECT COMPANY to bear His name — His nature and His authority. God has been forming His Church, the body of Christ. The Church is the "ecclesia" — the "called out ones." That is the meaning of the word "church." Precisely this has been in progress since Pentecost. The gospel has never, anywhere, converted all, but everywhere has called out some. It is here, in the true Church, which is His body, that Jesus Christ FIRST ESTABLISHES HIS GOVERNMENT that He might rule and reign on the throne of men’s lives.
God’s plan is to first set up His government in the hearts of His elect and then as they become totally committed unto Him to imbue them with His own mind, spirit, thoughts, will, nature and power until they have grown up into the measure of the fullness of the stature of Christ. But most Christians will not come to this! They are too busy playing church, rejoicing that they are not going to hell or that they are going to heaven when they die, and blundering around in the carnal programs and immaturity and shame of a wretched, fleshly, Babylonian religious system which falsely calls itself "the church." But just as the dispensation of the law, at its conclusion, brought forth that which it typified and pointed to — Jesus Christ the Son of God — so this present Church age must, in these last days, at its conclusion, bring forth that for which it was intended and to which it pointed — a many-membered BODY OF CHRIST, perfected, matured, overcoming, and full grown into the exact likeness and full glory of its Head and Lord.
The true Church is the ecclesia, the "called out" ones. They are called out by the Holy Spirit of God and they are called out unto God. Their ears know His voice and not the clamoring voices of strangers. Well they know by the Spirit that the Babel of voices which clamor to be heard from the pulpit and radio and television are too often the voices of strangers posing as the ministers of Christ who seek to draw away disciples after themselves, and not to point men to the Christ of God upon whose shoulder is the government of the world.
God has had no plan to save the world during the Church age, only to call out a people unto Himself. If God had purposed to save the world during the past two thousand years He most certainly would have done so, for HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY. God’s Kingdom program for the next age, as His Kingdom progresses from age to age in that glorious increase of which there is no end, is the subjugation and salvation of all the living nations on earth. The promise is sure. Hear what the Lord is about to do through His Anointed Christ Body in this, our day! "He that overcometh...to him will I give POWER OVER THE NATIONS: and he shall RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON" (Rev. 2:26-27). "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST, and HE SHALL REIGN TO THE AGES OF THE AGES" (Rev. 11:15). "And all the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and ALL THE KINDREDS OF THE NATIONS shall worship before Thee" (Ps. 22:27). "For the Lord most high is terrible; He is a great King over all the earth. He shall subdue the people under us, and THE NATIONS UNDER OUR FEET" (Ps. 47:2-3). "Yea, ALL KINGS shall fall down before Him: ALL NATIONS shall serve Him" (Ps. 72:11).
It is an extraordinary and awesome thing that the Lord by revelation of the Spirit gives His sons to understand that what He is doing on the earth today is merely a beginning. Nothing is finished yet. We are not even approaching the end of the world, or the consummation of the ages, or the great "wind up" of God’s program. (Eby)
I have so much more on my heart tonight but I will try to share more later this week. Let me close by quoting this incredible chapter from Romans. This is the second time I have quoted these incredible promises in as many months. I pray you sense in your spirit how close we are!
Romans 8
Free from Indwelling Sin
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If there is anything I have experienced in the last two days of prayer it is the almost unbearable discomfort of the flesh and the world I reside in. And if I have heard anything from my Lord it is "Christ in His fullness and your resurrection cometh soon." This is my hope and this is the hope of all "groaning creation."
My dear brothers and sisters, have you felt it ........ have you heard from Him ............ do you groan?
Jack
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CREATIVE .... SIMPLE ..... POWERFUL ..... ANOINTED
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........ might even move you to tears
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5
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........ might even move you to tears
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5
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HE TAKES ME IN AND BRINGS ME OUT
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Three years ago, after a fifteen year hiatus where I was running from God, I was enjoined with a small home fellowship for a few months. This was and is as lovely a group as you could and can find that still holds to many of the traditions of men. It seems about once a year the Holy Spirit will direct me to attend a meeting with these people, possibly to just let them know I love them. I often run across some from the fellowship in my day to day life. Outside the weekly gatherings while in the midst of our one on one visits it seems I am often able to share God's deeper freeing Truths such as Universal Salvation, God's sovereignty, the Kingdom within and salvation to the utmost. Slowly, I am seeing a growing acceptance of much of that which I share.
A few weeks ago and to my surprise, I was again led to attend a Sunday meeting of this little home fellowship. It had been a year almost to the day, since my last attendance and I was so blessed to see how God had me visit during one of the few meetings of late where there wasn't a speaker standing in front of the group and behind a podium delivering a message. Instead everyone sat in a circle and there was sharing by all, with the common theme of converstion being the " giving up of our works and resting in Him." Many spoke of "their retirement from trying to help God save them and just desiring to rest in the fullness of Christ's glorious sacrifice." I know this was an anomaly as far as the discussion and format of most meetings. It truly was such a blessing for me to be joined with these saints in a gathering where their was so little of the dual hierarchy of ministry and laity. In addition there was a rare and wonderful freeing spirit from condemnation and obeisance to the law that often permeated the atmosphere of past meetings.
I am always open to God's leadings and I believe He takes me in and brings me out of the settings of the old traditional organized system and it is good ...... it is very Good! Oh, how I love Him tonight and how deeply I carry His love for these captives that are about to be set free in the dawning age of God's Sabbath Rest.
I share these thoughts as a prelude to this excerpt from an article that caught my interest tonight. God bless, Jack.
In his book MEGASHIFT Barna says the majority of Christians worldwide already meet in their homes and by 2010 , at the present rate of growth, the majority in the United States will meet in their homes. Of course many have brought Babylon with them. But if 17%, the amount of the one out of seven of the priesthood that returned from Babylon, would meet as a body for Christ WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP I wonder if we would begin to transition into a Millennial Age. (I like to dream...)
My assertion is that this is an as yet unrecognized 1.) REVIVAL (of Spirit) of the most potent and unavoidable kind: 2.) reFORMation! (of structure) that certainly includes 3.) realignment (of doctrine) to be more accurately adjusted to the Truth. The change that is NOW "distilling as the dew" will prove to be more extensive and profound than that of the Protestant Reformation of the 1500's! This is going to be "a Tsunami of the Spirit" and a "Hurricane of Fire!" I believe Jesus is bringing out under His own direct authority a people who will be taught of Him and become "Overcomers." (Rev 2-3)
Though it's hardly been recognized, we are well into the forward edge of this move of God in the USA and already opening salvos of what Rick Joiner saw as a bloody civil war in the Church have been fired. The position of "Charisma," which I think has one of the largest subscription bases of Christian magazines, sounds like what must've been said to the Lutherans in the later 1500's. It claims that those meeting in their homes have left the Church and it's a deception sapping the vitality from the true Church. They say some men with warped personalities will take over an ignorant living room full of people. Does anyone else feel the humor on this one? Swaggart was running about $11.5 million a month thru' his "ministry." Haggard had what, 60,000 in attendance? We all know some other mighty big living rooms! "Charisma" also hasn't been allowing any honorable rebuttal, only fragments of "I think," "I feel," and, "It seems to me." I'm glad their influence is undermined because they're making room for the doctrinal changes that are already becoming obvious, doctrines they oppose like, "God...the savior of all mankind." (1 Ti 4:9) Oh glory! I can feel the fire upon me now!!!
Well, I WENT TO CHURCH BUT THE CHURCH WASN'T ON THE PROGRAM!!! They had other mediators in defiance of the First Commandment and prevent the "one anothering" that fulfills the whole law and prophets. I left seeking for more Church, where every member participates and there's a living search of the Scripture. No more being an audience for preachers with titles of honor from other professional elite who appeal to the largest donor base! I don't care how knowledgeable or gifted the man on stage is, he's not the body of Christ and JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!!
---James Rohde
P.S. (I hope I can live up to David's example and not lift a hand against Saul. And, Revival is both crisis and process, event and eventual.)
.
Three years ago, after a fifteen year hiatus where I was running from God, I was enjoined with a small home fellowship for a few months. This was and is as lovely a group as you could and can find that still holds to many of the traditions of men. It seems about once a year the Holy Spirit will direct me to attend a meeting with these people, possibly to just let them know I love them. I often run across some from the fellowship in my day to day life. Outside the weekly gatherings while in the midst of our one on one visits it seems I am often able to share God's deeper freeing Truths such as Universal Salvation, God's sovereignty, the Kingdom within and salvation to the utmost. Slowly, I am seeing a growing acceptance of much of that which I share.
A few weeks ago and to my surprise, I was again led to attend a Sunday meeting of this little home fellowship. It had been a year almost to the day, since my last attendance and I was so blessed to see how God had me visit during one of the few meetings of late where there wasn't a speaker standing in front of the group and behind a podium delivering a message. Instead everyone sat in a circle and there was sharing by all, with the common theme of converstion being the " giving up of our works and resting in Him." Many spoke of "their retirement from trying to help God save them and just desiring to rest in the fullness of Christ's glorious sacrifice." I know this was an anomaly as far as the discussion and format of most meetings. It truly was such a blessing for me to be joined with these saints in a gathering where their was so little of the dual hierarchy of ministry and laity. In addition there was a rare and wonderful freeing spirit from condemnation and obeisance to the law that often permeated the atmosphere of past meetings.
I am always open to God's leadings and I believe He takes me in and brings me out of the settings of the old traditional organized system and it is good ...... it is very Good! Oh, how I love Him tonight and how deeply I carry His love for these captives that are about to be set free in the dawning age of God's Sabbath Rest.
I share these thoughts as a prelude to this excerpt from an article that caught my interest tonight. God bless, Jack.
In his book MEGASHIFT Barna says the majority of Christians worldwide already meet in their homes and by 2010 , at the present rate of growth, the majority in the United States will meet in their homes. Of course many have brought Babylon with them. But if 17%, the amount of the one out of seven of the priesthood that returned from Babylon, would meet as a body for Christ WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP I wonder if we would begin to transition into a Millennial Age. (I like to dream...)
My assertion is that this is an as yet unrecognized 1.) REVIVAL (of Spirit) of the most potent and unavoidable kind: 2.) reFORMation! (of structure) that certainly includes 3.) realignment (of doctrine) to be more accurately adjusted to the Truth. The change that is NOW "distilling as the dew" will prove to be more extensive and profound than that of the Protestant Reformation of the 1500's! This is going to be "a Tsunami of the Spirit" and a "Hurricane of Fire!" I believe Jesus is bringing out under His own direct authority a people who will be taught of Him and become "Overcomers." (Rev 2-3)
Though it's hardly been recognized, we are well into the forward edge of this move of God in the USA and already opening salvos of what Rick Joiner saw as a bloody civil war in the Church have been fired. The position of "Charisma," which I think has one of the largest subscription bases of Christian magazines, sounds like what must've been said to the Lutherans in the later 1500's. It claims that those meeting in their homes have left the Church and it's a deception sapping the vitality from the true Church. They say some men with warped personalities will take over an ignorant living room full of people. Does anyone else feel the humor on this one? Swaggart was running about $11.5 million a month thru' his "ministry." Haggard had what, 60,000 in attendance? We all know some other mighty big living rooms! "Charisma" also hasn't been allowing any honorable rebuttal, only fragments of "I think," "I feel," and, "It seems to me." I'm glad their influence is undermined because they're making room for the doctrinal changes that are already becoming obvious, doctrines they oppose like, "God...the savior of all mankind." (1 Ti 4:9) Oh glory! I can feel the fire upon me now!!!
Well, I WENT TO CHURCH BUT THE CHURCH WASN'T ON THE PROGRAM!!! They had other mediators in defiance of the First Commandment and prevent the "one anothering" that fulfills the whole law and prophets. I left seeking for more Church, where every member participates and there's a living search of the Scripture. No more being an audience for preachers with titles of honor from other professional elite who appeal to the largest donor base! I don't care how knowledgeable or gifted the man on stage is, he's not the body of Christ and JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!!
---James Rohde
P.S. (I hope I can live up to David's example and not lift a hand against Saul. And, Revival is both crisis and process, event and eventual.)
.
OUR END .........
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Every once in awhile I will read something that makes the Spirit of Christ jump with confirmation within me. I dare to think of the mystery and truth found in these verses (below) from the obscure and discounted book known as the Gospel of Thomas. I am not much of a reader or promoter of the extra books outside the accepted "Cannon" but on rare occasion I stumble across a concept that moves my soul and such is this. I pray you have been given the heart to meditate upon this jewel.
18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be." Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death." ..........
22) ...........Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside"
Long have I proclaimed the the truth of the "Kingdom within" is of the greatest import. Do you believe Christ will appear in His fullnes when the "inside is like the outside and the outside is like the inside" ?
Oh, the wonder of it all!
Jack
.
Every once in awhile I will read something that makes the Spirit of Christ jump with confirmation within me. I dare to think of the mystery and truth found in these verses (below) from the obscure and discounted book known as the Gospel of Thomas. I am not much of a reader or promoter of the extra books outside the accepted "Cannon" but on rare occasion I stumble across a concept that moves my soul and such is this. I pray you have been given the heart to meditate upon this jewel.
18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be." Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death." ..........
22) ...........Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside"
Long have I proclaimed the the truth of the "Kingdom within" is of the greatest import. Do you believe Christ will appear in His fullnes when the "inside is like the outside and the outside is like the inside" ?
I believe so, but this is only the end of ourselves within the "realm of time and space" which bound up this world. This is but "one wheel within many other wheels" (Ezekiel's wheels). I truly believe the realms of God and His Agape Love are infinitesimal in number as are His Kingdom's without end.
Oh, the wonder of it all!
Jack
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HIS ENDURING MERCY
One of the motivations behind why Joian and myself were led to start this blog, was our desire to share with family and friends, our vision of our Father and the awesome expanse of His Son's sacrifice and gift of Love.
It is also our desire to share, that we were once confronted with this doctrine portrayed below in this unique message written by a friend. We both each, had to pray and ask the our Father whether this was "truth to be embraced" or "heresy to be discarded." Joian and I had to decide between the "traditions of men" or the possibility that "Christ's gift of Eternal Life will be extended to all God's children." After prayerful consideration, we both heard from our Father and it forever changed our view of Him. In addition, this truth transformed how we now see and care for our neighbors. I would hope before you read further you would pray our Father, to help you discern how great His Love and how enduring His Mercy. God bless.
********************
In Acts 5:34-38, the wise teacher, Gamaliel, warned the leadership of Israel not to fight against Jesus' disciples. He said if God was not with these disciples, their work will just become nothing. But if God was with these disciples, then the leadership of Israel would find itself fighting God Himself.
We are once again in such a situation in the earth. God is unveiling His greatness and majesty through His disciples. And once again, the very leaders of God's institutions and their constituents are in a position where they are fighting the very work of God. The following statements will help the reader to determine whether they are on the side of God or on the side of tradition. After answering all the statements whether they are true or false, the reader must decide which side he/she will be on or whether to close their mouth and not participate in this battle. Be careful with your answers. Be even more careful with the decision regarding whose side you will be on - tradition or Truth.
Jesus asked the question, "When the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" When Jesus came to the "chosen people" 2,000 years ago, he found more faith outside of Israel than in it. If Jesus visited "the church" today, perhaps your church, is it possible He might find more faith in the local tavern than your church? The following statements are designed to show the reader their level of faith or unbelief. It is designed to show that the "traditions of men" can indeed "make the word of God of no effect" in their lives. They can attend church regularly just like the Jews in Jesus' day attended their Synagogues habitually, but never "come to the knowledge of the truth."
For each statement below declare out loud whether YOU PERSONALLY believe the statement is True or False. It is important that you do it verbally, not just in your mind. Or perhaps print it out and then circle the T or F.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (John 1:1, Mark 20:31) T or F
He was crucified, was buried and rose again on the third day. (Acts 2:23; 4:10) T or F
Jesus Christ's blood was shed for the remission of sins. (Matt. 26:8) T or F
"The Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world." (1 John 4:14) T or F
Jesus is "the Christ, the Savior of the world." (John 4:42) T or F
"This is good and acceptable in the sight of our God our saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (1 Tim. 2:3-6, KJV) T or F
Jesus "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2) T or F
Jesus "did not come to judge the world but to save the WORLD." (John 12:47) T or F
"Jesus, was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for EVERYONE." (Heb. 2:9) T or F
"Love NEVER fails." (1 Cor. 13:8) T or F
"With God NOTHING is impossible." (Luke 1:37) T or F
"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach." (1 Tim. 4:9-11) (Remember, answer OUT LOUD True or False to each of these statements.)
"At the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:10:11) T or F
"God was pleased to have all fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself ALL THINGS on earth or in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross. Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in His sight, without blemish and free from accusation." (Col. 1:19, 21, 22) T or F
In Jesus Christ is "the restoration of ALL THINGS, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:21) T or F
The Gospel is "good tidings of great joy will be to ALL people." (Luke 2:10) T or F
Believers in Christ are "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:13) T or F
God appointed Jesus "heir of ALL THINGS, and through whom He made the universe." (Heb. 1:2) T or F
"No one can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Him draws him." (John 6:44) T or F
"As God gave Jesus authority over ALL FLESH, that he should give eternal life to as many as God have Him." (John 17:2) T or F
The Father "has given ALL THINGS into Jesus' hands." (John 13:3) T or F
Jesus "was the true light which gives light to EVERY MAN who come into the world." (John 1:9) (Remember, answer out loud True or False to each of these statements.)
"Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of ALL MEN, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL MEN." (Rom. 5:18) T or F
Jesus is "able even to subdue ALL THINGS to Himself." (Phil. 3:21) T or F
Jesus came "that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of His will." (Eph. 1:10, 11) T or F
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) T or F
"God was Christ reconciling THE WORLD to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: be reconciled to God." (2 Cor. 5:19, 20) T or F
"ALL the nations shall be blessed." (Gal 3:8) T or F
"The Bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives Life to the WORLD." (John 6:33) T or F
Jesus commanded us to be like Himself and His Father: "Love your enemies, bless those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." (Matt. 5:44, 45) True or False
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (drag in the Greek, helkuo) ALL MANKIND unto Myself." (John 12:32) T or F
"Creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope, because creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Rom. 8:20, 21) T or F
"The Father loves the Son and has given ALL THINGS into His hands." (John 3:35) T or F
"Since by man came death, by man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam ALL died, even so in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22) T or F
Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, the first born over ALL CREATION. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." (Co. 1:15, 16) True or False
"ALL shall know the Lord, from the least of them to the greatest of them." (Heb. 8:11) T or F
"The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN." (Titus 2:11) T or F
We are not to "repay evil for evil." (Rom. 12:17) True or False
"If anyone's work which he has built endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14, 15) T or F
"Of Him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS, to whom be glory forever. Amen" (Rom. 11:36) T or F
"ALL Israel will be saved." (Rom. 11:26) T or F
"Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for ALL, and therefore all died." (2 Cor. 5:14) True or False.
"The head of EVERY man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (1 Cor. 11:3) T or F
"ALL nations shall come and worship You, for your judgments have been made manifested." (Rev. 15:4) T or F
"When God's judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the WORLD will learn righteousness." (Isaiah 26:9) T or F
"Mercy shall TRIUMPH OVER (exalt over) judgment." (James 2:13) (Remember, answer out loud True or False to each of these statements.)
"Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more." (Rom. 5:20) T or F
"EVERY CREATURE which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever." (Rev. 5:13) T or F
If we REALLY knew the Lord, we "would not have condemned the guiltless." (Matt. 12:7) (Remember, answer out loud True or False to each of these statements.)
"God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles, which is Christ in you the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning EVERY MAN and teaching EVERY MAN man in all wisdom that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." (Col. 1: 27, 28) T or F
"ALL nations whom God has made will come and worship before Him" (Psalm 86:9)
God's "mercy endures forever." (1 Chron. 16:34) T or F
God's Spirit "will be poured out on ALL FLESH." (Joel 2:28) T or F
God beckons us: "Come, and let us return to the Lord, for He has torn, but He will heal us. He has stricken, but He will bind us. After 2 days, He will revive us. On the THIRD DAY He will raise us up that we may live in His sight." (Hosea 6:1, 2) T or F
"The Lord had made bare His Holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and ALL the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." (Isaiah 52:10) T or F
"The glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and ALL FLESH shall see it together; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken." (Isaiah 40:5) T or F
God will "open His hand and satisfy the desire of EVERY living thing." (Psalm 145:16) T or F
God is "gracious in ALL His works." (Psalm 145:17) T or F
"The EARTH is the Lord's and ALL its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein." (Psalm 24:1) T or F
"ALL the kings of the earth shall praise you, 0 Lord, when they hear the words of your mouth." (Psalm 138:4) T or F
God "reveals Himself by those who did not ask for Him: He was found by those who did not seek Him." (Isaiah 65:1) T or F
God "reveals Himself by those who did not ask for Him: He was found by those who did not seek Him." (Isaiah 65:1) T or F
"The Lord is gracious and full of compassion, slow to anger and great in mercy. The Lord is good to ALL, and His tender mercies are over ALL His works. ALL your works shall praise you, 0 Lord." (Psalm 145:8-10) T or F
"ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the Lord, and ALL the families of the nations shall worship before You. ALL those who go down to the dust (death) shall bow before You." (Psalm 22:27, 29) T or F
"0 You Who hear prayer, to you ALL flesh will come. Iniquities prevail against me; as for our transgressions, you will provide atonement for them." (Psalm 65:2-4) T or F
"Through the greatness of your power your enemies shall submit themselves to you. ALL the earth shall worship You and sing praises to you." (Psalm 66:3, 4) T or F
"Through the Lord's mercies we are not consumed, because His compassions FAIL NOT. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness." (Lam. 3:21-24) T or F
"The Lord will NOT cast off forever. Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His
mercies." (Lam. 3:31, 32) (Remember, answer out loud True or False to each of these statements.)
"For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would fail before Me, And the souls which I have made." (Isaiah 57:16) T or F
"There is no God besides Me, a just God and Savior; There is none besides Me. Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath. He shall say, surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, and all shall be ashamed who are incensed against Him. In the Lord ALL the descendants of Israel shall be justified and shall glory." (Isaiah 45:21-25) T or F
"In this mountain the Lord of Hosts will make for all people a feast of choice pieces, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of well-refined wines on the lees. And he shall destroy on this mountain the surface of the covering cast over ALL nations. He will swallow up death forever, and the Lord will wipe away tears from all faces." (Isaiah 25:6-8)
"ALL the nations of the earth shall be blessed." (Gen. 18:18) T or F
"ALL the families of the earth shall be blessed." (Gen. 12:3, 28:14) T or F
"It shall come to pass the saying that is written: `death is swallowed up in victory. Oh, Death, where is your sting Oh, Hell (Hades) where is your victory.' The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Cor. 15:54-58) T or F
Of those who crucified Him (which is all of us) Jesus asked: "Father forgive them; for they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34) Did the Father forgive us all? T or F
"It is finished." (John 19:30) T or F
What is finished? What did Jesus come to do? When John and James wanted to call fire down on the Samaritans' heads because they did not believe Jesus was the Son of God, who did Jesus condemn, His disciples or the Samaritans for not believing the gospel directly from the apostles' own mouth?
"But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." And they went on to another village." (Luke 9:55, 56) Dear Christian, think! These Samaritans, who knew the Law of Moses, rejected disciples who personally knew Jesus AND rejected Jesus Himself. Why didn't Jesus do what the typical modern evangelist do, condemn them to Hell because they didn't "decide to follow Jesus," they "didn't give their hearts to the Lord." According to the modern traditional gospel, these Samaritans were given the chance to go to heaven but they rejected the way. Yet Jesus didn't condemn them - He condemned His own disciples for behaving the way the typical Christian behaves today.
Jesus came to save the world, not just a part of it. If He succeeded, then He could rightfully be called the "Savior of the world." But if He failed, then not only could He not claim that title, He could not be the Messiah because He would have failed in the mission of the Messiah.
If you said "True" to all of the Scriptures above, then you now understand those who believe in Universal Salvation, Ultimate Reconciliation, Doctrine of Inclusion, Universal Reconciliation, Universalism, etc. Those Christians who believe everyone will ultimately be saved do NOT believe so from wishful thinking or "sloppy agape" as they so often are accused of - they believe so because it is plainly written in EVERY SINGLE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE. So dear reader, if you accuse those who believe Jesus will save all mankind of being a heretic, you are accusing someone of simply believing what is plainly written in the Bible. Could it be that you just don't have as much faith as these who see these glorious Scriptures and believe them with childlike faith?
The Scriptures admonish us to make "supplications, prayers, intercessions and giving of thanks for all men." (1 Tim. 2:4) The Scriptures further state in the KJV that "God will have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4, KJV) It also states that "whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them." (Mark 11:23) It takes the faith of Jesus Christ to believe such great promises. Jesus wondered when He returned whether He would find faith on the earth. (Luke 18:8) If Jesus is indeed the Savior of all mankind, can you now see why He might make such a statement? You see, most of the churchworld doesn't believe these glorious Scriptures even though they have read them hundreds or thousands of times.
Dear Christian, do not condemn those few on the earth who have faith to believe Jesus is able to do what He came to do. There are not many who stand by the words of Jesus and the Scriptures. There were not many in Jesus' day who believed in Him as He truly was even though they regularly attended synagogue and knew the Scriptures. Millions of Christians are in exactly the same condition as the Jews in Jesus day - they regularly attend church and read the Scriptures, but their image of Jesus is one who ends up losing most of these He died for. And they are taught to label as heretics those who believe in the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, that is, that He will save all mankind. I strongly advise you not to do this anymore. You may find yourself fighting the very God you say you believe in. Remember the wise words of Gamaliel who advised Israel NOT to go against Christ's disciples because they might find themselves fighting God. (Acts 5:34-38) Be very careful, my Christian friend, especially if you are in leadership, that you find yourself fighting those whom God has given great faith. You may find one day Jesus saying to you, "Oh ye of so little faith, why did you doubt my great love and saving power?"
As shown above, most Christians have forsaken the bold promises of the prophets and apostles and have had their ears tickled by modem day false teachers who merely pass on the "traditions of men that make the word of God of no effect." (Matt. 15:6-9) Instead of condemning the "little flock," the "remnant" through whom God has chosen to preserve the truth, perhaps you should repent of your unbelief. After all, unbelief was Israel's primary sin. Is it possible that it is your primary sin as well? After all, the Jews were for signs and examples for those who would follow, that is, for Christians. The Church-at-large has fallen into the same unbelief the Jews fell into and for the very same reasons - they followed the traditions of men. Look at the church world - over 30,000 different denominations with tens of thousands of different rituals, traditions, articles of faith, creeds, forms of government, etc. What did Paul say about following different men? Why do people today call themselves "Lutherans, Protestants, Wesleyans, Calvinists, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, etc? Is Christ divided? He most certainly is in Christendom. The "traditions of men" most certainly blind us thus making the true word of God of no effect. Ask Jesus to set you free from them. Then He will give you the faith to believe in His promises. Then your eyes will be opened to the glorious truth which is written on almost every page of the Bible. And what is that truth? It is that Jesus Christ came to redeem all of mankind and that He succeeded on the Cross. His work is finished indeed. He IS the "savior of the world." Oh, ye of so little faith, why do you doubt?!
“First they ignore it, then they laugh at it, then they say they knew it all along.” 19th century German philosopher Alexander Humbold
If your mind is racing and your heart is pumping and your hope is soaring, visit the following internet site for a foundation of the Hope that is stirring within you right now. The food given by most traditional churches is full of poison. It is like the processed food our corporations pump out, packaged to appeal to the flesh, sweetened to appeal to the flesh, but full of processed poisons giving us diseases like obesity and diabetes. Jesus came to give us life and more abundantly, not poison. (Gary Amirault, author)
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
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